Hello, this is Marlon. I have been following in the last days these discussion. Hard stuff because it is soft. I think that it directly reflects important epistemological and methodological splits that we host. It almost feels like another recretaion of the Sokal affair in our list. I feel that what it is very important is that we can keep realizing the dificulty for communication and (hopefully) our commitment to improve our "meta" cognitive skills to be able to continually review our epistemologies and keep the dilaogue whithout alienating. I tend to think like Matt. Because of my background in psycology and cognitive science, I am passionate about the need for more scientifically and methodologically grounded theories about "what is going on" when we do what we do, but at the same time I know that as a practitioner ( and an human) I get trapped in my "own blind spots" when I think that, for example: improvisation "is" a generative system. I appretiate the courage and honesty of both, because this discussion (the hardest) has been needded for long time and is becomming more and more relevant due to a very important phylosophical methodological shifts that main stream research and science is already having. We are getting more and more able to study complex phenomena such as dance, human motion/cognition with dynamic systems models and real-time technologies (Esther Thelen/Indiana University and Scott kelso In Florida). Our very practices are becoming the subject of scientific research. Now, as interdisciplinary researcher/practicioners we have a lot to contribute. The objective would not be to try to make science all the time look right or wrong, it would be in how we can we can clear our discurses without over simplications and to be able to keep developing knowledge that takes into consideration the many facets of our "world views". I think that we need an ethnographer/s. A real anthopologist to study, clasify and relate our "stories". This list would be one of his/her documents to analize and stablish connections between scientific discourses, practices and tools, institutions (trade of metaphors, etc). He or she would have to make alot of interviews and connect a lot of field data. I think that a counterpoint between an ethnographic perspective with a scientific research with awareness on the importance of "discourses", the political problems of science, art and academic institutions, and a deep knowledge of the practices would help us to develop knowledge. (an example for me is the book of the anthopologist Stephan Helmreich Silicon Second Nature on Artificial Life and of course the Santa Fe Institute community of scientists and so and interesting reserach in cogitive anthopology). I believe that our dance practices are going to be researched and are getting"hotter" for the undertanding of fundamentental aspects of navegation, devleopmental movement, porture, and motion ( of course when ther are marketing interests to fund the research like in robotics). The hypothesis that this scientists try to test might be completly different to the rational of the artist/practitioner thinks that is going on. That is the beauty of human consciousness. It is still very hard to make a jump now to think that we can explain "choreography" or architectures" but we have meaninful pieces in a puzzle which is exiting and facinating. Methodologies are been developed (data mappins, simmulations, content analisis are some of them) This is my contibution in a way that I humbly recognize that we don't know alot, but we know much more than 40 year ago about how we create (designed and mediated) experiential realities with skillfull manipulations (that we can purchase) from pills to blogs, webcam sex to telematics perfomances, with Paris Hilton and Trisha Brown, with Lacan and Sokal, a "list" or a performance in Tokio, ideas of wholes and fragments, skin colors and accents, "where are you from?" Anyway, Thank you Matt, Jaime and the anonimous Transomething. marlon Marlon Barrios Solano embodied interactive design teaching/consulting/design/performance New York City Real Time Techne 2.0 http://www.unstablelandscape.net/blog/ unstablelandscape http://unstablelandscape.blogspot.com/ Interactive Environments for Performance http://www.unstablelandscape.net/liu/ Citizen Journalism http://www.unstablelandscape.net/ecomedia/ cell phone in USA: 614-4462175 Skypein: country code+1(916) 226-9062 Skype name: unstablelandscape IChat name unstablelandscap --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail.