Now...you will all be pleased to know...I am sure...that I received the following posting back from cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx almost instantaneosly (though some postings do get mysteriously delayed) without any changes or alterations to it, apart from the metadata of course...the content is exactly the same. That should only be right with open source communications. I also checked out the posting on the website. However, this is not an absolute gaurantee that the posting you received from me via the mailing list was the same as the one I sent or received...if only because alice and bob might be able to communicate with one another, but Charlie the very fat man in the middle with lots of international rings round his belly and fingers might have altered and changed it for everyone else....
P.S. You will notice that it was MI6 that organised the Zinoviev letter, though, on the grounds of national security they have always denied it...and it was only many years later that MI5 after much forensic deliberation and with the latest classified and declassified knowledge in their hands, decided that it was a forgery...by MI6.
On 29/11/2015 15:40, doug wrote:
Just because one is not feeling persecuted...doesn't mean to say that one isn't.
"The well laid plans o' mice and men gang aft agley, and bring us nocht but grief and pain...for promised joy." Wrote Robert Burns... in 'To a Mouse...on Turning up her nest with a plow"
A classic example of the law of unintended consequences. The publication of the Zinoviev letter by the British Daily Mail, was intended to discredit the Labour Leadership duing an election, and to reduce the Labour vote However, it actually succeeded in discrediting the Liberal Party instead, and turned the leadership of the Labour Party into turmoil...a bit like what has happened to the Labour Party today over bombing the people of Syria...
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter
A.J.P. Taylor <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._J._P._Taylor> argues that the most important impact was on the psychology of Labourites, who for years blamed their defeat on foul play, thereby misunderstanding the political forces at work and postponing needed reforms in the Labour Party.^ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter#cite_note-2>
Forging and corrupting letters is much easier and quicker today, and can happen on a massive scale, both in terms of the new technology and the access to the world wide web, that was ever possible before. Whilst it is possible to find out, using one's instinct (there are some things that are incredibly difficult to believe) and with the use of computer forensics, such forgeries are discoverable. It can, however be too late, a bit after the event, like the "sexed up" ( I didn't find it, or anything in it sexy at all, but maybe I am a bit naive on such matters) report "The Dodgy Dossier", which got the UK involved in the Iraq War, a document which was old, written by a youngster as his first thesis, already discredited yet used by Blair & Co to convince the British People that Iraq was only 4 minutes away from launching weapons of mass destruction, which were capable of landing on Cyprus...
Or of course the US administration's evidence to the United Nations
also, see url: https://news.vice.com/article/the-cia-just-declassified-the-document-that-supposedly-justified-the-iraq-invasion
Of course it wasn't the intelligence agencies which were responsible for the two governments using these reports, they had already warned the politicians that the contents were tentative, or made up. The question is, in my view, why Blair and Bush wanted to go to war in the first place, and goes to show just how much control the US government can exert over Her Majesty's Government at various times. Remember, that the US and the UK wanted the UN to support a war against Iraq because Saddam Hussien's Iraq had access to weapons of mass destruction, and because the Iraquis were responsible for 9/11.
It is notable today, that the same war-mongering is going on in Europe and the UK with regard to terrorism. The Labour Party is in a mess after it took such a pasting (especially in Scotland, where it lost its long term heartlands), and the smaller political parties, with the exception of the Libdems are growing and there is a major campaign being carried out by the those conservative, establishment forces who are out to discredit Jeremy Corbyn the Parliamentary Labour Leader and the present Labour leadership, (not that he takes much discrediting).
The Conservatives won a large majority, at the recent election, some of which was due to fears being put about that the Scottish First Minister and SNP leader Alex Salmond might become Deputy Prime Minister of the UK in the next parliament. Now, the Conservatives, taking advantage of the internal splits of the Labour Party are using the foreign and defence secretarys (Ministers of H.M.s government) to phone up Labour M.P.s individually at home today to persaude them to reject the Labour Whip and vote with their conscience to save the UK from terrorism by bombing Syria...I think they are also looking to pinch a few M.P.s as well. A politicians work is never done. The Conservative Party also has opposition within its own parliamentary membership, and there were a number of political demonstrations in the UK yesterday, so the issue isn't quite so clear cut.
It was only a couple of years ago that the UK parliament refused to be drawn into bombing Syria, but the latest terrorist mass murders in France, and the newly found love of Hollande and "old Europe" and all things French amongst the ruling circles and establishment in England has led to France hoping that the UK parliament will support them in bombing Syria to get rid of the Syrian President.
Are you any the wiser after reading this little vignette? I doubt it, because all that will happen is that even more people will leave the Middle East and travel to Europe. there are now around 16 countries, without boots on the ground who are bombing Iraq and Syria and those who do have their boots on the ground are the "lesser evils" i.e. terrorists who are better trying to be better than the others and all vying and competing with one another to get overt and covert support from the various western democracies involved.
A new version of the Crusades of the 11th Century...nuffink changes that much in human relations, we just get more efficient at killing, maiming and torturing one another.
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
P.S. This email might be a forgery and it cannot be gauranteed that it reaches cryptome in the same state as it left my computer...