[cryptome] Re: The downside of the Snowden case

  • From: John Young <jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 12:24:19 -0400

Agree with that prospectus. There remains the enduring
problem of mediation of disclosures, in Snowden's case
almost a melodramatic blackout of what he is alleged to

A couple of dozen releases, some redacted and snippets
of what is said to be several thousand documents. Hyperbole
substitutes for full disclosure as if the mediators have capabilities
the dim-witted public lacks. This conceit is all too like what the
secretkeepers claim and reeks of exaggeration and bombast,
if not slavish imitation for similar self-serving of perquisites
and profits. Three days of Aspen Security Forum just ended,
paid for by the usual natsec outlets and contractors.

Threats of "aiding the enemy" has gained traction to squelch
national security journalism, or if not yet the few decent journos,
then their publishers who vet what is to be released despite
the byliners' public moans that they had much more than
got past the in-house managing editors, lawyers, advertizers,
sacred privileged sources.

One gauge of this sophisticted cover-up is the grandiloquent
hyperbolizing of documents which are not fully released for
unbiased analysis and assessment. No respect is due for
this racketeering which serves the purpose of apparently
informing the public but instead disinforms. Dramaturgy.

Hope that this will change is a customary feature, be patient,
be trusting, verily a banner for the current administation but
hardly new with it.

In short, national security journalism is entertainment on the
order of explosive film-making, probing documentarianism,
tell-all ex-spy and -SEAL books, daring insider whistleblowing
(as if that is not tradecraft), law-suit expose of least-classified
highly redacted material, and as ever, bountiful military and
spy agency recruitment and contracting.

"Aiding the Enemy" is in the works for all these virtual landscapes.
Several for WikiLeaks, Manning, ex-NSA gents, for Snowden
going against Alexander, scripted and guided by a coven of
valiant hyperbolists. I will consume them all to plagiarize the

At 08:50 AM 7/21/2013, you wrote:
"DIY national security is no joke. Now impossible due to
secrecy bloat and exclusion of the public from participation
in meaningful ways."

If Manning and Snowden were given the credit and respect they deserve, the public would be able to participate in more meaningful ways. Nothing helps National Security more than an involved and educated public that knows what is actually going on in the rest of the world, instead of the current public fed on the pablum of spin and fear generated by the Washington and Media elites.

I'm not so worried about our country 'transforming into a Soviet Style Russia...' We have the skills, resources, and capacity to make that transformation something much better or much worse than the Putin's of the world can come up with. I just hope it is for the better.

Gary Wallin

On 7/20/2013 6:10 AM, Jeremy Compton wrote:
I dont think this is going to happen realistically. Your country is transforming into a Soviet style Russia. ....

From: <mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [<mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] on behalf of professor rat [<mailto:pro2rat@xxxxxxxxxxxx>pro2rat@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 11:07 p.m.
To: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cryptome] Re: The downside of the Snowden case

So long as we have governments they must protect their citizens from spying. They must mandate strong encryption. This is the burning political issue of the day.

From: Jeremy Compton <mailto:comptojere@xxxxxxxxxxx><comptojere@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 8:37 PM
Subject: [cryptome] Re: The downside of the Snowden case

The other thing l thought was interesting was the strong rise in encrypted communications with many businesses offering solutions to the governments snooping.

I still have a cell phone, but not a smart phone. So, with all the information about how governments collect information on people, then it is wise if you dont want to be giving up a lot of information, that one would consider possible countermeasures to this. For me this took the form of 2 years ago cancelling my facebook account which never had anything useful on it.


From: <mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [<mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] on behalf of Adrien Jolibert [<mailto:jolibert@xxxxxxxxx>jolibert@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 10:30 p.m.
To: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cryptome] Re: The downside of the Snowden case

You are making a mistake.

Saw this interview just 1-2 months before Snowden. <http://lesinternets.arte.tv/>http://lesinternets.arte.tv/ (french for most). Some of these interviews told us, there is data collection but for now, they don't know what to do with all that ciphered data.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Jeremy Compton <<mailto:comptojere@xxxxxxxxxxx>comptojere@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I think it is likely that we may see people declining their usage of electronic communication to lower levels. I dont use social media and l am declining my usage of electronic communications.


From: <mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [<mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] on behalf of professor rat [<mailto:pro2rat@xxxxxxxxxxxx>pro2rat@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 9:33 p.m.
To: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cryptome] Re: Microsoft and the NSA

The mother of all PR disasters rolls on. Obambi seems to want to break Dubya's record of downsizing the USSA to respectable proportions. Its quite a spectacle.

From: John Young <<mailto:jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 11:04 PM
Subject: [cryptome] Re: Microsoft and the NSA

Points most valid. Public discourse on national security
is deficient. It has become a vast racket concealed by
secrecy and ample economic rewards.

As global threats dwindle there is more openness
until the next threats, then return to greater secrecy than
before as the national security racket further advances
more than it retreated.

The greater the racket the greater chances it will become
corrupt, suffer from gigantism, internal fractures and factions,
overweaning leaders and their supporting infrastructure of
contractors and lobbyists, and disaffected minions who get
fed up with the corruption of their bosses and a few bravely
go public.

As we see lately from a tiny number of honorable grunts.
Amazing that there are not thousands among the several
million of natsec feeders, perhaps only 1% of which contribute
significantly to protection of the nation -- for the rest it is
job protection, no joking matter, or for top natsec firms
officers fortune protection, many of whom are ex-officials,
a sick joke which should be criminal except lawmakers
are beneficiaries. This is amply reported, customarily to
no effect.

DIY national security is no joke. Now impossible due to
secrecy bloat and exclusion of the public from participation
in meaningful ways. NatSec is now a bastion of scoundrels,
and natsec news coverage is complicit. The worst offenders
are the pundits, essayists, apologists and opportunists in
academic and policy institutions who are actually covert

Corrpution of insufficiently-checked power is well documented
in historical studies of the rise and fall of powerful states. Secrecy
is essential to preventing democracy.

Anybody who has been a grunt in any of these anti-democratic
organizations, mil, com, edu, org, is acutely aware of abuses and
threats of punishment for disclosures -- insiders always the
greatest threat to power. Let us hope the abused grunts will
continue to now and then let us in on the latest iteration of
public opinion manipulation. But expect, by "human nature,"
most will pitifully believe they have a shot at upward mobility
so long as national threats endure.

This is not to ignore that disclosing natsec corruption can
be a successful shot at upward mobility. Natsec industry
rewards critics who do not go too far with disclosures and
castigates those who do -- ie, compliant media constitutionally
blessed in contrast to "conspiracy theorists." So we have a
small sub-set of the industry which briefs selected outsiders
with insider golddust at lunches, by leaks, by FOIA, by anonymous
sources, by security confabs, by securitized contracts, by
whatever means assures friendly oversight is as cooperative
as loyal opposition.

At 08:02 AM 7/19/2013, you wrote:
>On 7/18/2013 7:59 PM, John Young wrote:
>>...its greatest enemy is its hyper-paranoia.
>>National security is not about protecting the nation, its aim
>>is to generate fear of its inevitable failure.
>John, perhaps you are too pessimistic. I don't like the panopticon
>or the surveillance state. But with 7 billion people on the planet
>and the inglorious history of human nature, parts of the security
>programs may be needed. I would prefer that people prevent abuses of
>the National Security state and surveillance, rather than calling
>for its abolition.
>Constructive criticism is needed and pointed questions must be
>raised. But in the end, it is not the nature of the State that is
>our primary concern; it is human nature itself. But both the
>behavior of both the State and the People give reasons for great concern.

Other related posts: