[cryptome] Re: The CIA Saves Lives

  • From: Chien Fume <chien.fume@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:05:09 +0200


Amazing how you did a Straw Man on what I wrote. Really... this takes some
practice. In spite of your uncritical inferences and pole-vaulting to a
number of conclusions, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

There's a difference between the system as established in the U.S.
Constitution and the way this system has been (is now being) used.

Who could possibly agree with all that's been done using the U.S. system?
And who really believes that the fellow currently occupying the position of
POTUS has the best interests of anyone other than those whom he serves. And
can't the same be said of most (but not all) of those who've become POTUS
through the years? Yet, haven't there been enough people along the way who
respected what the United States Constitution was really about... starting
with George Washington, who could easily have become a king.

If you can, talk to somebody who has worked in the CIA in a serious
position... if they're honest with you at all, they'll tell you the Agency
isn't monolithic. There have always been competing groups... and this was
true during the OSS days, and the agencies that existed before OSS... going
all the way back to the Revolution. For quite some time, the Agency has
been dominated by people who are essentially stuck in a strange Reality
Tunnel. For a long time, starting with the post-WWII cooperation with the
former SS officers and NSDAP scientists, they've been assisting some of the
worst groups of people... but that doesn't mean that there aren't opposing
voices inside the Agency (although they're now mostly forced to remain
silent, looking for an opportunity and hoping for a dramatic change in

And exactly whose interests are you serving with your Wikispooks site? Who
pays your bills, maintains your website, approves the things you allow to
be entered there? Would it happen to be an immensely wealthy Hungarian
fellow? The real-life person that Orson Welles parodied in his
not-so-successful "Mr. Arkadin"?

Are you really any different than those you criticize? For the purposes of
discussion, please engage in a thought experiment with a hypothetical
situation... Were you to have someone in your custody who had knowledge of
the imminent slaughter of someone (or several someones) really close to
you... what would you do? Let's say you had only a few hours to prevent the
horror. Cigarette to the eyeball, perhaps? Electric shocks to the sensitive
parts? Dentist tools to the various nerve clusters? Or would you just let
your dear ones be slaughtered?

I don't believe you've ever been in a position such as described above, and
I doubt that the most pious and vociferous critic of the CIA in this forum
ever has been in any position at all that would qualify them to
pontificate. But maybe someone has been... and that was the real purpose of
my original message... to see if someone would just come out and admit it.

Does any of this mean I support unnecessary brutality against others? Of
course not.

One could add a lot of items to your list. If those are all you can come up
with, then again it seems your knowledge is limited to the propaganda
you've been fed. Or perhaps you're trained in the rather simple techniques
of obfuscation.

Also, applying critical inference, presumably you believe that other
governments in the world are pure as Snow White. Are you a fan of China,
North Korea, Saudi Arabia, the large Muslim movement that's rising up all
over the world? 'Who do you serve? And who do you trust?' (kludged from one
of my favorite spin-offs from the Babylon TV series).

Personally, although I'm no longer in America, I'm convinced that the
United States Constitution is a singularly unique document. It must be
preserved... actually right now, it must be restored to the authority it is
supposed to be (not the Presidential fiats, or the whimsical rules of
probably-illegal bureaucracies like the IRS, DHS, ATF, and most of the
other Alphabet Agencies.

There's a long-term effort to destroy the unique United States system of
government... most of the time with people openly stating their intentions.
Obama and his associates (including the Emmanuel Brothers) have stated
their intentions. Eric Holder, heck the whole sick crew and their allies in
Wall Street want to turn America into another North Korea or China. What is
the Facebook front-man Zukerberg doing in China, praising the atrocious
dictatorship there? And what do you know of the torture methods China
uses... or that are used in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and many other places?

So do your best to go back to my original message and answer the questions
asked there.

Thank you and have a nice day...

Chien Fume

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Peter Presland <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> On 10/12/2014 13:10, Chien Fume wrote:
> > a system of government that, like it or not, has done more good than harm
> If you genuinely believe that then we are at the core of the problem.
> Here are some of the bads:
> 1. Treating the South American continent as a collection of vassal
> states through much of the 20th century with a continuing fierce
> opposition to any gestures of independence from their varying current
> states of vassal-hood.
> 2. Raising every North Korean city to the ground through the early
> 1950's, killing millions both North and South in the process.
> 3. Killing 3 million Vietnamese and poisoning both population and land
> for decades - to what purpose was that repulsive episode directed?
> 4. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine costing millions more lives
> and the destruction of ancient cultures.
> And they are just the tip of the 20th century iceberg of 'do things our
> way or else' threats menaces and similarly dirty covert operations,
> which continue with increasing desperation.
> Don't you think the Empire might just have something badly wrong? or is
> it all going to plan? I'd be interested in your views.
> And while you're at it, maybe a similar list of those 'goods' you see.
> PeterP

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