[cryptome] Re: The CIA Saves Lives

  • From: Chien Fume <chien.fume@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:10:53 +0200

Please do not take my comments in a hostile way.

Are we to assume that those of you who're commenting on this subject have
direct experience with interrogation of hostile persons?

If so, have you ever been responsible for extracting information from an
individual (or group of individuals) that you knew for a fact had been
involved in acts of extreme violence and/or had been facilitators for such
acts and/or were thought to be planning future acts of extreme violence?

I know (or think I know, maybe just believe) that many of you on this list
do have direct experience with a variety of clandestine operations from the
InfoSec side.

Some of you are still working in this world, either directly or as 'private
contractors'. I don't expect you to reveal this to everyone.

But if you're going to become such pious moralizers and sound off with such
ferocious indignation on this topic of interrogating individuals who are
involved in an extreme and intolerant ideology that would eradicate every
moral and social advance we've made over the past 150 years I do expect
that you'll either admit you do have experience or that you don't.

If, by chance, you admit to having experience, please enlighten the rest of
us in how you extract information from and individual (or group) who is
100% opposed to your very existence.

Personally, it's unfortunate that Americans can't find a way to waterboard
the entire current Administration and use every other method of enhanced
interrogation to find out what's really going on with this group of people
who seem to be much more like Pol Pot and Joe Stalin than people who are
interested in preserving a system of government that, like it or not, has
done more good than harm.

Chien Fume

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:02 PM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>

> http://www.wsj.com/articles/cia-interrogations-saved-lives-1418142644
> They still believe in their own lies...even though they have been exposed
> as myths so many times. What kind of people are they?  Don't they even read
> the eminent research which has been carried out in their own country,  that
> there are better ways of obtaining information from suspects?  There is a
> whole science devoted to the subject.
> Also, why did they only allow CIA officers with a previous record of abuse
> and violence and personality disorders to become the interrogators, without
> any training in any form of interrogation, advanced or otherwise?  Why
> wasn't it overseen, why weren't records kept. One would have thought that
> if it was all above board, legal, justifiable, and heaven forbid, moral and
> ethical and in the kidnapped'ts best interests as well as that of the
> nation, that there would have been plenty of records kept; if only to prove
> that it worked in theory and practice, and to show that no illegal
> practices had been used.  Instead they  illegally destroyed even the videos
> made of the torture..because they said they were valueless. A new meaning
> for the word "incriminating" more like.
> I seem to remember one story on Cryptome, where one female CIA officer,
> rather high up the heirarchy who was part of a team trying to catch Bin
> Laden was so keen to get to the interrogations that she moved rock and
> stone to get there.  I wonder if it was satisfying and what information did
> she receive after the 187th time the suspect was water boarded.  Did it
> help her to catch Bin Laden and to win the war on terrorism.  Nice to know
> that there is equality between the sexes at the CIA.
> $80 million dollars paid to a couple of inexperienced psychologists...to
> make sure that the program was done credibly and with respectability?  A
> total of $180 million spent on the programme!
> Why did they involve so many other countries in their "extaordinary
> rendition" trips and pay to have bases built in some of the most
> respectable as well as nefarious countries in the world.  Why not have them
> on US territory?  After all it was all legal.
> I remember too, here in the UK the overflights and stopovers by privately
> hired areoplanes carrying out the extraordinary rendition, was denied by
> Jack Straw, the then Foreign Secretary.  It took aeroplane fanatics who
> took photos and accessed flight records to prove that they had happened.
> The UK of course, has signed the Human Rights Act and as signatory to the
> European Convention on Human Rights and supports the European Court of
> Human Rights.  No torture, no support for torture.   We were supposed to
> have learned our lessons from using similar methods against IRA suspects
> way back in the "troubles".
> Have no crimes been committed here?  Will no one be prosecuted for crimes
> against humanity?  Will the US still wage war and interfere in other
> countries in the name of Enduring Freedom and Human Rights... Begins to
> sound a bit hollow, but there you are that is politics for you...
> It is as well to remember that the greatest advocates for human rights
> were the US prosecutors at the Nuremburg trials of the Nazis. "Obeying
> lawful orders does not excuse abuse of the higher human right to
> life"...Jackson...Leading US Prosecutor.
> see url: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/nuremberg.html
> Dougie.
> Ah!  Well!  At least these human beings aren't cats...they didn't eat
> their prey.

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