[cryptome] Re: Scottish Independence?

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:41:22 +0100

Hi Aftermath,

Tx for the url for the article on using Bitcoin

see url: http://scot.bid/shop/

for the significance at the present time of a bit currency being used in Scotland.

see url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Law_%28economist%29

and find out why the Mother Jones article wasn't too well researched.

John Law, (he came from the next village from me, but well before my time) was a murderer, gambler, and internationalist, who was the financial whiz kid who brought France to its knees in the 17th..18th., Century, after escaping a sentence of execution. Still, he had a lot of knowledge about fiat currencies, so much so that he created a few years of prosperity and saved the French King for a few years, before the economic crisis called "The Mississippi Bubble" brought him, the French King and France to its knees. John, though left for the Netherlands before it burst...and lived happily ever after.

I have been away a few days, exploring English Country properties and estates of a bygone era as part of my retirement plan for relieving stress and improving my education. The time of Empire was when England was in its heyday; the rich and poor and the aristocracy, the capitalists, the peasants, servants, working classes and nationalities knew their place, and their wealth grew from taking over one third of the world, and buying cheap and selling dear...when they weren't stealing it. Much of this wealth, culture, art, and architecture is concentrated in the estates of the landed gentry, amply supplied by the colonies and now the National Trust, which preserves and cares for so much of the nations treasures. Land tax and inheritance tax, and other such "socialist" measures has meant that "Upstairs Downstairs" only appears in film form from Hollywood and such like, rather than being the norm it used to be.

The English and Scottish National Trust work very well together these days and allow their members on both sides of the border to enjoy the same fruits of membership...though...and this may be a surprise to you and our colleagues, the cost of joining the Scottish National Trust is around £10 cheaper than the English variety. Both include free parking. My English sister in law and her husband, did contemplate joining the Scottish variety to take advantage of this financial advantage, but as they are both philanthropists and charitable people, we managed to convince them to support their home charity.

This will all change of course, if Scotland becomes independent on Friday. According to those of our "betters" who stand "together", Scotland's economy will go to the dogs. Having huge resources of oil is a major problem for the economy, it seems. The Bank of England will not co-operate on sharing the currency and the Scottish people will be left out in the cold. Unemployment will rise, the National Health Service will collapse, prices will be raised and all the major companies, the banks and financial institutions will leave for the rich pastures of England, particularly the City of London.

The people of Scotland are being battered by the big guns of the U.S. of A., the Chinese, The Russians, The Indians, as well as the UK government and all those large countries who have problems with revolutionaries, seccessionists and liberation movements of all kinds in their home states. International institutions, corporates and businesses are all laying in to the Scots for being so stupid as to think that they can be more economic and solve their problems by taking control of their own finances...far better left to the stock exchanges and the international financial services...What does the ordinary or middle class Scot know of capitalism and its great opportunities for creating wealth...eh....!

Mr. Cameron, the Prime Minister resorts to calling his party a bunch of f***ing Tories, in a bid to win over the supporters of the "Scottish Team" and Gordon Brown, the ex UK Prime Minster, quoting Karl Marx at a rally this morning. "From each according to his abilities to each according his needs" rallies the masses of the Scottish Labour party who have been so ignored in the past by his leadership...and who have faithfully elected 59 M.P.s to the UK parliament for years and years.We certainly are entering controversial and changing times.

Poor Alex Salmond, poor ole Scots and Scotland, for having the temerity to even suggest leaving England, rejecting the United Kingdom, wishing to remove the "Great" in Great Britain...ridding themselves of Trident and U.S. bases. They just didn't realise the forces that they were releasing upon themselves...on a world scale. I am surprised that the polls are running so close to the wire and that the Scots are not all murdering each other, or the Scottish National Party leadership imprisoned for sedition in the Tower of London and put on trial at the Old Bailey for Treason.

I return to my home here in England, only to find that the shit is certainly hitting the fan. With 97% of the Scottish population registering to vote and the polls showing only a small majority for the Union and a UK Prime Minister and lots of Westminster M.P.s and the Leaders of the UK political parties visiting Scotland and making all sorts of speeches, pleadings and concessions, which they couldn't afford before, and which they have no intention of complying with, because there is a general election in April 2015...and much to the chagrin of their back bench M.P.s who represent English, Welsh and Northern Irish constituencies, who also want a share of the power, the action and the money. The "East Lothian" question is raising its big ugly head in a big ugly way. It can't be swept under the carpet any more. The English natives are now complaining that the 59 Scottish M.P.s in the Westminster Parliament, should have no right to vote on English economic matters.

As for Scotcoin...well perhaps it will have to be left for another time, when the dust has settled and rationality and logic return to the UK, and the pound has been found as "not fit for purpose".
Still...it might never happen...

On 17/09/14 11:11, Aftermath wrote:
related : m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/scotland-independence-referendum-currency-bitcoin <http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/scotland-independence-referendum-currency-bitcoin>

On Monday, September 8, 2014, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    Salmond laid it on the line, committed himself in the last and
    final debate with Darling, when he said in reply to the "what if"
    plan "b" point (which caught him on the hop at the first meeting)
    that the "better together" movement were making, that if the
    people were voting for independence, then as far as he was
    concerned, the view that the Scottish government was taking, was
    that sticking with the pound, with an agreement with Westminster
    was the best option.  So, it would probably be too late to
    advocate any other formula.  If the Scots decide to vote for
    independence, that is the route they will be going down.

    What I have found funny over the last few days, has been all those
    extra bits of carrots which Cameron and Co have come up with to
    try and keep the Union. First of all we had the stick, no say on
    the pound, kicked out of the E.U. no chance of getting back in,
fleeing of international and national businesses from Scotland. No compensation or help to remove the Polaris bases in Scotland
    and so on.

    Yet Salmond and the Scottish government tried to get included in
    the referendum questions, another alternative which would allow
    for greater devolution of powers, rather than just a straight
    Yes/No question on independence. Cameron and Co. refused point
blank to have it included, said it would be too complicated. Cameron has now, or is going up there to sort it all out. The
    trouble he has got is that he is seen as a typical English
    Conservative, the hooray henry with the hoighty toighty accent,
    speaks with chukkie stones in his mouth, and all that jazz.  He
    might finish up making the situation a lot worse.  I certainly
    wouldn't like to be in his shoes...:-).

     They calculated that they were going to easily win the vote and
    didn't want the third alternative clouding the issue. Yet, here
    they are, trying to do that very thing, even though the postal
    votes are already in.   Could finish up, if it goes pear shaped
    for the Scottish government and they lose the independence vote;
    that they could appeal and go for a re-run of the referendum, due
    to the waters being muddied by the Conservative/Liberal Coalition
    changing the goalposts.

    Ah! Well! The proof o' the puddin' is aye in the eatin.  And
    whether the Scots vote with their hearts or their minds, we won't
    know until the day of reckonin'.

    On 08/09/14 23:33, Aftermath wrote:
    I dont think theyve considered it either unlike Ecuador or
    Iceland, but they could still have paper money by using QR codes
    on paper and and creating exchanges to exchange fiat to digital.

    The new proof of steak method is far more efficent and arguably
    more secure than the proof of work that first gen
    cryptocurrencies use so massive distributed mining and electrical
    consumption wouldnt be an issue..

    On Monday, September 8, 2014, doug

        Hi Aftermath,
        Now, that is a very interesting point.  The Scots were never
        short at inventiveness during the industrial revolution, and
        very few of us learned our reading and writing without the
        aid of that great Scots American Andrew Carnegie, who devoted
        so much of the wealth which he extracted from exploiting his
        U.S. workforce in the late 19th and early 20th century, that
        he didn't know what to do with it and gave 90% away to
        funding the educational and philanthropic institutions with
        the wherewithal’s to give a diverse education to the
        underdogs of the world...including us Scots.  There is nary a
        town in Scotland that doesn't have its main library named
        after and funded by Andrew Carnegie.  I, myself would never
        have been able to read books on so many subjects, in the
        comfort of a nice, warm reference room in the middle of a
        harrowing Scottish winter, if it hadn't been for this man's
        great benefaction...

        That said...I don't think that the Scottish establishment has
        even considered using a crypto-currency....though I could be
        wrong!  It has found great difficulty getting its head round
        the practicalities of using the pound Sterling, and cannot
        even agree on how much oil wealth they have. And they have
        the same problem prioritising and balancing the budget as
        does any other bureaucratic state.

        Really, at the time they decided to go for a referendum on
        independence, they were hoping to join the Euro, as an
        alternative to the pound if they couldn't get some kind of
        agreement with the Bank of England.  However, the global
        financial crisis "scotched" that, if you will pardon the pun,
        so they were left with the alternative of going for the pound
        sterling or creating a new currency called the Scottish pound.

        Trying the concept of joining the Euro on the Scottish
        masses, was unfortunately a no go area at the time and it was
        felt that it would lose them any referendum. A
        crypto-currency would be even more confusing, in my humble
        opinion.  I remember carrying out a survey in my local
        computer club a couple of years ago, and I was the only one
        who had ever heard of Bitcoin, and no one had a clue what it

        Having left Scotland in 1964 as an economic migrant and
        hitch-hiked all the way to London with £50 in my pocket to
        make my fortune, most of my close family have passed on and I
        have little contact with rare relatives, and therefore, nux
        influence on Scottish life.  However, if anyone on here has
        contact with the Scottish Social media, it might well be
        worth while bringing the subject up...

        Kind Regards,

        On 08/09/14 21:44, Aftermath wrote:
        as far as their national currency, its not unheard of for a
        country to atleast CONSIDER the use of cryptocurrency.

        On Monday, September 8, 2014, doug
        <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

            Hi Silent1,
            I am a member Yougov, but they didn't give me the chance
            to vote in any of their polls on Scotland.   Doesn't
            surprise me in the slightest that the "Yes" lot are
            using such tactics...I dare say, so are the "No"
            vote...who is the biggest.  And why is it all so
            urgent...tomorrow is another day.  Long before the
            referendum, I watched the various debates in the
            parliamentary committees on the Scottish question...one
could see then how the arguments were going to pan out. I loved the currency question, when it came up at in the
            Financial Committee. Completely flummoxed the Scottish
            Civil Servant, I was surprised that Salmond got caught
            out on it, he is a wiley politician if there is one.

            It will be interesting to find out how the social media
            has been used by all the Parties, institutions and
            organisations, and how much it will influence the
            outcome.  I dare say that some academic will be doing a
            report on it.

            Regarding The West Lothian Question...I fully agree.  I
            don't see why the M.P.s representing Scottish
            constituencies should be allowed to vote in the
Westminster Parliament on what are English questions. The issue has been raised many times by the Scottish
            nationalists,  they drew Cameron's attention to the
            contradiction, but it was ignored, too busy fighting and
            funding foreign wars and supporting the U.S. and the Al
            Quaeda Liberation Front in Syria.

            If Cameron had paid more attention and put more money
            into the kitty, then perhaps his Conservative/Liberal
            government and their "Better Together" cronies would be
            in a stronger position, both in England as well as
            Scotland. English Nationalists, little Englanders and
            UKIP popping up everywhere.

            I loved the crack made by a member of the public at one
            of the debates between the Scottish P.M. Alex Salmond
            and the "Better Together" leader, Alistair Darling.  He
            asked Mr. Darling why we weren't better together now,
            rather than getting on better in the future...difficult
            one to answer...got a big laugh...:-).

            On 08/09/14 19:15, Silent1 wrote:

                Just a small note regarding polling, a lot of the
                yes voting camp were getting people the sign up to
                yougov (the main referendum polling agency) a few
                months ago so it can't be taken to be all that accurate.
                I'm indifferent to Scotland leaving or staying I'd
                rather the West Lothian question was sorted though.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                [mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug
                Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 6:43 PM
                To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                Subject: [cryptome] Scottish Independence?

                Dear Colleagues,

                With the recent polls giving the "Yes to
                Independence" vote a small
                majority for the first time in the referendum on
                nationhood....which has
                shocked a number of their English "betters" and
                surprised the Scots Nats
                even more. I was just thinking about the strategic
                implications for the
                Western powers if the Scottish people do decide to
                leave the UK and
                strike out on their own.  It would certainly mean
                some kind of changes
                to NATO, to 5 eyes, to various Western alliances,
                and England's position
                in the world.  it is a different proposition arguing
                world politics and
                sending armies to Afghanistan, Iraq and such like,
                as a "little
Englander" nation rather than the United Kingdom. One can see why Obama
                wants Scotland to stay as part of the UK, what with
                the polaris bases
                and storage facilities and other US listening posts
                based there.  There
                are a lot of Scots wanting rid of these facilities
                and would rather
                spend the money on "proper" jobs like tourism and
                protecting the
                environment.  I wonder if Obama and the NSA will
                offer pots of money for
                a new Scottish C.I.A. and NSA to work in alliance
                with GCHQ and the
                secret intelligence service.  I wonder if the S.I.S.
                will consider us as
                friendly aliens".  I wonder if the S.I.S. and the
                security service,
                considers all of those who support yes and vote yes,
                as enemies of the
                state, radicals and targets of operations...

                It is interesting to note, too, that the very
                Conservative Westminster
                parliament, after being very negative about the
                Scots being able to do
                without the support, expertise and money from the
                English parliament,
                that the Conservative politicians are now offering
                all sorts of carrots
                to keep the Scots in the kingdom. And this is being
                of the voting has already taken place.  That
                wouldn't be allowed to
                happen in a UK election, yet it is being forced upon
                the Scots.  i
                wonder how the Scots will react to it.  The same
                thing happened with the
                Poll Tax, the Scots bore the brunt of it.

                All the stops are being pulled out at Westminster,
                the dirty tricks are
                starting, and I dare say that the U.S. embassy will
                be sticking its oar
                in as well...

                Maybe the Scots should use the dollar...rather than
                the pound...:-).
                Food for thought.
                P.S. I am not a nationalist, nor am I for or against
                independence. Just
                like being a member of the E.U.  I don't have a clue
                whether it is a
                good or a bad thing.  Personally, I think small is

Other related posts: