[cryptome] Re: Putin: Living In The Clouds

  • From: Shaun O'Connor <capricorn8159@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:12:33 +0100

I will add one short response to that, Technology per se, is neither
good nor bad, it is the intent of the user that determines its
"goodness" or "badness".
  guns however, where deigned for a very specific purpose.
On 07/07/2014 22:06, doug wrote:
> Hi Todd,
> Typewriters are still a technology and you have to learn to type, but
> before you type you have to learn to read.  Reading opens up a whole
> new world, including that of garbage as well as stuff worth learning. 
> Lot's of people in the world have yet to learn to read and write, far
> less have the opportunity to look at cartoons.   In some societies,
> they have no need to learn to read and write and have no books, or
> radios and television, no electricity either. Other societies would
> like to have such technologies but can't afford it, or only make it
> available to the few who can afford it.
>  Is it, perhaps, that our problem solving representatives are trying
> to use their problem solving skills for the wrong purposes, most of
> the time, looking after their own priorities, which may or may not
> coincide with those of others?
> Technology too, can help to solve problems, personally, I support the
> scientific approach and the introduction of new technology.  Even with
> the problems we have today of applying new technology,  I still think,
> on balance that the world is a better place...Or perhaps a correction
> here...my world and perhaps your world is a better place.  But that
> doesn't mean to say that all technology is good, or that it is bad. 
> It is as well to remember that primitive peoples have lived on the
> planet for millions of years without destroying the planet, it is only
> our generation which has developed the capabilities of making it
> uninhabitable for most of the human race...but that is evolution for
> you.  A species which cannot adapt to its environment, or sustainably
> change its environment is replaced by another which can, and I am sure
> that another one will appear, if it hasn't already arrived...:-)  at
> some stage.  I am not one of those people who believes that our
> species is immortal.
> Whilst technology is an application and creation and invention of a
> post hole shovel, it is a lot more than that.  A monkey can use a post
> hole shovel to get a peanut out of a hole, it takes a human being to
> hit someone else over the head with it.
> Let me give you an example.  Solar panels are great in that they
> produce energy from the rays of the sun, they are often called green
> or environmentally friendly in western society (I use western here for
> convenience and not necessarily as a political or geographical term)
> particularly by the "Greens".  And if we were to produce enough of
> them and put them on roofs all over the world, or put them along the
> side of motorways and railways, or put lots of them in the desert, we
> could generate a lot of energy and save on fossil fuels and carbon
> dioxide emissions, and the costs of capture would come down, and we
> would all live happily ever after.  However, the people of North China
> might not agree with that statement, because of the rare metals which
> are contained in their production and parts of North China where they
> mine the stuff has been severely polluted and the people suffer from
> serious illnesses.  That could be avoided of course, if the stuff was
> mined in a more environmentally and humanly friendly way...but that is
> not the fault of technology per se...it is the fault of those human
> beings who don't mine it properly.
> Mechanical typewriters still have to be designed, produced,
> manufactured and distributed...that all consumes energy and materials,
> including lots of water.  Electronic typewriters might be produced
> using slightly less energy, but they also use rare metals and plastics
> and there are islands in the middle of the Pacific where the beaches
> are full of bits of plastic, bottles and so on.  it is only now that
> recycling such materials is being developed, previously the cost of
> doing so was put on the environment.  The trouble with life these days
> is that there are advantages and disadvantages, and benefits and
> disbenifits in almost everything we do. Benjamin Franklin had ways of
> overcoming this by using a technique called bootstrapping
> decision-making, but lots of people use it these days, even though it
> would be ideal transferring it from bits of paper to computing power.
> Solving all problems first sounds like a good idea at first, but then
> we are in danger that by the time we had solved all the problems, the
> problems would have solved themselves and new ones would have come
> along...and then, where would we be?  Mitigation wouldn't get a look in.
> Doug.
> On 07/07/14 19:31, Todd Judge wrote:
>> Pretty much so, thanks. Instead of anything close to defining needs
>> and designing logical solutions, the American/western "way to do
>> things" has been to, hey, use technology(!). That'll do it.  Govt Top
>> down directive now spews only from brains quick to pick up on the
>> latest cartoon-logic cronies' sales pitches that rob and flush tax $
>> straight down the toilet.  
>> The "representatives" we elect, at all levels, now have absolutely no
>> problem solving skills.  That ability has been bred right out of them
>> by now.  So obvious unless you like their same commercials.  They're
>> good at remembering the commercials they like but their brains are a
>> mirror of the dumbness we've  been so eager to adopt.
>> Technology is nothing more than a post hole shovel.  It's a tool, but
>> the stupid commercials constantly mesmerizing our power craving
>> governments brazenly scream false claim that the shiny thing thinks
>> and acts wisely, so they don't have to cover for their personal lack
>> of basic intellect.  How many "plan B"s do you know of for current
>> programs paid for? And what % of the most expensive nonsense lint
>> today does what it's supposed to do?
>> Problem solving in security, comm and political but unnecessary
>> programs around the west is never the foundation of design, nor even
>> mentioned.  You're only fed "looky what this monstrosity will do!".
>>  And the results are so poorly created, they don't do what you just
>> heard they are doing, and if the original intent had any justifiable
>> basis to solve a problem, that vanished before contracts were even
>> finalized Gonesky.
>> Typewriters is more than smart, it's an applicable analogy to solve
>> the smallest to biggest problems (in this case most effective way to
>> limit for access by a simple cheap piece of paper and ink).  Power
>> grid attack, etc, ?   
>> No absolute shutdown if you have a piece of paper and a crayon, dirty
>> stick, pencil, or a mechanical typewriter.  All you need is an
>> equally simple way to get the paper to its recipient.   Something so
>> simple, typewriters solve the top two issues any govt requires to
>> operate. Outside access intimate security and all levels of govt
>> emergency communications.  
>> (I start plans instructing teams to forget all about technology until
>> we solve all problems first, design alternate mitigation second, and
>> functional plan Bs third.). It works every time. 
>> Taa-daa.  Mechanical typewriters and Russians.  Who-da-thunk-it?
>> On Jul 7, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Jeremy Compton <j.compton@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:j.compton@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>> Your point is the Russian are not dumb. Yes, that is not disputed.
>>> With the recent conflict in Syria and the offshore naval
>>> contestation Putin managed to bring this whole Shakespearean drama
>>> to a close by removing chemical weapons of the table which would
>>> have lead to a naval shooting match.
>>> The strategy of Putin and Obama has been compared to that of Obama
>>> playing checkers and Putin playing 3 dimensional chess. 
>>> Putin, is a very smart player, this is obvious :) Obama, does not
>>> appear to be at the moment, unless he is playing another game that
>>> is not that obvious.
>>> Jeremy
>>> > From: toddbob@xxxxxxx <mailto:toddbob@xxxxxxx>
>>> > Subject: [cryptome] Re: Putin: Living In The Clouds
>>> > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:33:42 +0900
>>> > To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >
>>> > And don't forget, Russia does know about insuring internal
>>> communications security while taking on these ventures. The Russian
>>> govt still buys more typewriters than the rest of the world
>>> combined. Or something like that.
>>> > Wait. What was my point?
>>> > Todd
>>> >
>>> > > On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:22 PM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Dear Colleagues,
>>> > >
>>> > > I see that Mr. Putin and his government have decided that the
>>> Clouds over the USA are no longer an option, and that he will be
>>> "nationalising" the storage data of his citizenry. Bad news for
>>> those companies who sell their "secure" options in the clouds in the
>>> USA, they will have to get their act together sufficiently to
>>> convince other countries that there is not only no "unauthorised"
>>> access, but access which is guaranteed to be secure to the nation or
>>> corporations' satisfaction. Maybe though, that is an impossible
>>> task...and instead they will get more subsidies from the government
>>> so that they can keep going and keep up appearances.
>>> > >
>>> > > Who wants to buy fake, or counterfeit goods these days,
>>> especially when they are no good and don't work. It is not only
>>> American citizens who are suffering the consequences. How can people
>>> and companies or corporations, who are not American citizens, and
>>> therefore have no rights of security of their information,take part
>>> in negotiating contracts at arms length in a global economy, which
>>> the US and western states are encouraging so much, when the security
>>> services are helping themselves to the same confidential information
>>> and refusing to allow proper inspection and oversight to make sure
>>> that they aren't selling off such information to the highest
>>> American bidder, or surreptitiously, privately to other bidders? Bad
>>> news for the "samisdat" Russians too.
>>> > >
>>> > > Presumably this move will have the added advantage of making it
>>> more difficult for the prying eyes to get access, and at the same
>>> time, allow Putin and his agencies to use the benefits of Edward
>>> Snowdens revelations, tiny though they are, to improve the
>>> collection, collation, sifting and sorting, profiling and targeting
>>> of the data of his own home citizens, for purposes diverse and
>>> devious. It has taken them a while to catch up with the wiles and
>>> ways of the old KGB and their relations with western security
>>> services. Perhaps they have been far too trusting, or complacent, or
>>> busy with other priorities...not any more.
>>> > >
>>> > > I understand that a number of other nation states are
>>> contemplating going down the same route. Perhaps we will see
>>> attempts at the expansion of "5 Eyes" and associated nation states
>>> who share less information with the USA and its colleagues, as a way
>>> of overcoming the attempt to collect everything that moves
>>> electronically. One never knows about such things, enemies can
>>> become friends, or friendly aliens, so quickly in the world these
>>> days, that one can hardly keep up with it.
>>> > >
>>> > > One never knows, one might even see the Chinese legitimately
>>> getting in on the act and gaining the trust and friendship into the
>>> worlds "secret" security exchanges...;-)
>>> > > ATB
>>> > > Douglas
>>> > >
>>> >


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