[cryptome] Re: Mobile Phone Security

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:37:24 +0100

Hi All,

There is nothing wrong or illegal, or unlawful or immoral with file sharing or using peer to peer networks...In fact it is a highly efficient and fast way of sharing information amongst a lot of people at the same time...as long as the material is out of copyright, or permission has been gained from the copyright holder. Fair use entails using some of the copyright material for educational or private or non-commercial purposes.

I am not an expert in international law or any law for that matter, but I doubt very much that any country would have laws which would allow copyrighted material to be distributed for commercial purposes, without the permission, or grant of a licence to do so, by the holder of the copyright, particularly without the owner of the work's permission....If the owner of the work has granted a public license that still usually excludes the work being shared for commercial purposes. The debate may be about whether file sharing of copyright material is a criminal offence, or whether it is for commercial purposes; but it is certainly subject to civil remedies, else there would be no point in having copyright. Large companies buy up copyrights of course and make them into films or exploit them in other ways. Little people like me have neither the time, the inclination or the money to take the big guys to court to protect our copyright in our posts. And, in the UK, the court would not even recognise the claim as it would be considered too small, much like breaches of privacy.

It is not an offence in the USA to publish classified material from a source under the provisions of free speech. In the UK it is illegal, although a defence of "in the public interest" is allowed in court. It is however, illegal for the source who hasn't been given permission to publish or the information hasn't been declassified in both countries.

From my understanding of the ethos or substance of the Cryptome website and list it is there to disseminate and share information which is for an educational and informative and philanthropic purpose rather than as a commercial proposition. No monetary gain is made from Cryptome, it is done very much at the owners expense and the giving up of a great deal of his free time. I don't think it is there to act as a conduit for the sharing of material which can be used for a commercial purpose.

Also, if for instance this list were to continuously advertise peer to peer sharing of copyrighted material, then its credibility amongst that very audience which it seeks to influence or inform may change from those who are interested in its ethos to one for file sharing for commercial reasons.

As I said before, it is of no matter to me what people do...unless it affects me. If I want to go and find out about illegal file sharing, then there are plenty of other lists and websites which are open to me or anyone else.

We certainly have come a long way from mobile phone security...

Anarchy reigns...:-).

On 10/06/14 19:50, Shaun O'Connor wrote:
It is a good point you raise and one well worthy of thrashing out because as I see it,the US in some respects considers itself to be judge and jury of the world in toto.

As to how best to advise anyone submitting to a public forum such as this, one could approach it in a number of ways , either they take the attitude of "publish and be dammed" or write with a modicum of caution beaing in mind likely consequences following their online writings. having said that I am aware that sometimes the line between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour is hard to define in some jurisdictions.

On that basis It would seem that there are no hard and fast rules that could really apply.
On 10/06/2014 18:36, Maarten Billemont wrote:
I am unsure whether this is a valid tangent for this list, but I'd like to put this thought and my question out there regardless.

While we are on the Internet, on a mailing list open to people from all nations around the world, it is somewhat unclear to me what the etiquette and respect for national laws should be.

I understand the United States of America has some seriously draconian legislation with regards to copyright enforcement, not in the least the DMCA. Regardless and perhaps especially because, I think it indecent to judge citizens of all nations under the strict legalese of the US. I don't know why we're slowly moving toward an Internet where everybody everywhere is being judged based on the DMCA and other purely American opinions on copyright, its violations and what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

Might I point out, for instance, that there are many countries where the downloading and even sharing of copyrighted material is, often under certain terms, perfectly legal? Countries such as Canada, the Netherlands and Switzerland have very little objection to private use of copyright material, especially when you've previously purchased and perhaps lost another digital copy of said works. Similarly, a recent ruling in Europe has confirmed that links to copyrighted material do not constitute unlawful behaviour in itself.

At the same time, while the conversations on this list are not considered criminal conduct in countries such as the US where freedom of speech is still held in some regard, the same is not true for many other countries where the mere discussion of certain topics or party thereof can be considered criminal. Should be consider these laws while conversing on this list given the real chance that some of its readers might be under those jurisdictions?

Perhaps behaviour on lists such as these need to be determined based on the jurisdiction of the author of the message, perhaps under the jurisdiction of the list's host, or perhaps under that of the list's reader. Regardless, I think it unjust to tell someone off for doing something that may well be perfectly legal in his own country based primarily on US law.

A quick lookup does appear to indicate this list is hosted within US jurisdiction, and if host jurisdiction ends up being the measure for a list's etiquette, I can get behind that and this should probably be made known somehow to those that sign up before they unwittingly violate a law they have no knowledge of (surely we're not all expected to know the laws of each country which may host an Internet service?).

As a disclaimer, this message does not express the opinion that sharing of copyrighted material is acceptable, nor does it intend to condone it.

On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:23 PM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

On 10/06/14 15:56, Aftermath wrote:
use at your own discression

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014, Douglas Rankine <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Hi B
I am really pleased and relieved that you have said that...Now, whatever you do with your own life is your own affair. The thing to think about for the future is, do you think it is wise to involve others in your private affairs by using this list to encourage other people on this list to download copyrighted material...without explaining to anyone the consequences which could occur to them and for this list, in that it could be accused of being used as a vehicle for downloading such stuff?And...do you think that peer to peer file sharing, encrypted or otherwise protects you, or anyone else from illegal activity on the internet, or from a civil suit of conspiracy and damages? If so, you won't be the first...and you won't be the last. Have a think, don't let your ego rule your common sense. Now, I personally am not bothered what you do with your life, after all, you are a free agent and I don't know you...and it is only a personal opinion I am expressing...I could be wrong, and if you want to take that chance...that is up to you.

Personally, I thought this list was about learning about encryption and computer security and information technology myself and not breaking the law. Have you ever heard of a DMCA notice? John Young gets them occasionally and he has been known to "pull" a file. That's what one has to do, if one wishes to steer clear of the bad guys...or is it the good guys...
Have a nice day...

    Dear Aftermath,
    Are you sure about that source. If so take a look at what the
    Electronic Frontier Foundation says about it. They do a lovely
    simple to understand tutorial on it. After reading it I think
    you will be advising our colleagues of a different source.  We
    wouldn't want to be getting our younger and perhaps more naive
    colleagues into trouble, would we😐

    On Jun 10, 2014 1:09 PM, Aftermath


        its great

— Maarten Billemont (lhunath) —
me: http://www.lhunath.com <http://www.lhunath.com/> – business: http://www.lyndir.com <http://www.lyndir.com/> – http://masterpasswordapp.com <http://masterpasswordapp.com/>


Other related posts: