[cryptome] Re: Mobile Phone Security

  • From: Shaun O'Connor <capricorn8159@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:50:13 +0100

It is a good point you raise and one well worthy of thrashing out
because as I see it,the US in some respects considers itself to be judge
and jury of the world in toto.

As to how best to advise anyone submitting to a public forum such as
this, one could approach it in a number of ways , either they  take the
attitude of "publish and be dammed" or  write with a modicum of caution
beaing in mind likely consequences following their online writings.
having said that I am aware that sometimes the line between acceptable
and unacceptable behaviour is hard to define in some jurisdictions.

On that basis It would seem that there are no hard and fast rules that
could really apply.
On 10/06/2014 18:36, Maarten Billemont wrote:
> I am unsure whether this is a valid tangent for this list, but I'd
> like to put this thought and my question out there regardless.
> While we are on the Internet, on a mailing list open to people from
> all nations around the world, it is somewhat unclear to me what the
> etiquette and respect for national laws should be.
> I understand the United States of America has some seriously draconian
> legislation with regards to copyright enforcement, not in the least
> the DMCA.  Regardless and perhaps especially because, I think it
> indecent to judge citizens of all nations under the strict legalese of
> the US.  I don't know why we're slowly moving toward an Internet where
> everybody everywhere is being judged based on the DMCA and other
> purely American opinions on copyright, its violations and what
> constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.
> Might I point out, for instance, that there are many countries where
> the downloading and even sharing of copyrighted material is, often
> under certain terms, perfectly legal?  Countries such as Canada, the
> Netherlands and Switzerland have very little objection to private use
> of copyright material, especially when you've previously purchased and
> perhaps lost another digital copy of said works.  Similarly, a recent
> ruling in Europe has confirmed that links to copyrighted material do
> not constitute unlawful behaviour in itself.
> At the same time, while the conversations on this list are not
> considered criminal conduct in countries such as the US where freedom
> of speech is still held in some regard, the same is not true for many
> other countries where the mere discussion of certain topics or party
> thereof can be considered criminal.  Should be consider these laws
> while conversing on this list given the real chance that some of its
> readers might be under those jurisdictions?
> Perhaps behaviour on lists such as these need to be determined based
> on the jurisdiction of the author of the message, perhaps under the
> jurisdiction of the list's host, or perhaps under that of the list's
> reader.  Regardless, I think it unjust to tell someone off for doing
> something that may well be perfectly legal in his own country based
> primarily on US law.
> A quick lookup does appear to indicate this list is hosted within US
> jurisdiction, and if host jurisdiction ends up being the measure for a
> list's etiquette, I can get behind that and this should probably be
> made known somehow to those that sign up before they unwittingly
> violate a law they have no knowledge of (surely we're not all expected
> to know the laws of each country which may host an Internet service?).
> As a disclaimer, this message does not express the opinion that
> sharing of copyrighted material is acceptable, nor does it intend to
> condone it.
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 12:23 PM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> On 10/06/14 15:56, Aftermath wrote:
>>> use at your own discression
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014, Douglas Rankine
>>> <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> Hi B
>> I am really pleased and relieved that you have said that...Now,
>> whatever you do with your own life is your own affair.  The thing to
>> think about for the future is, do you think it is wise to involve
>> others in your private affairs by using this list to encourage other
>> people on this list to download copyrighted material...without
>> explaining to anyone the consequences which could occur to them and
>> for this list, in that it could be accused of being used as a vehicle
>> for downloading such stuff?And...do you think that peer to peer file
>> sharing, encrypted or otherwise protects you, or anyone else from
>> illegal activity on the internet, or from a civil suit of conspiracy
>> and damages?  If so, you won't be the first...and you won't be the
>> last.  Have a think, don't let your ego rule your common sense.  Now,
>> I personally am not bothered what you do with your life, after all,
>> you are a free agent and I don't know you...and it is only a personal
>> opinion I am expressing...I could be wrong, and if you want to take
>> that chance...that is up to you.
>> Personally, I thought this list was about learning about encryption
>> and computer security and information technology myself and not
>> breaking the law.  Have you ever heard of a DMCA notice?  John Young
>> gets them occasionally and he has been known to "pull" a file.  
>> That's what one has to do, if one wishes to steer clear of the bad
>> guys...or is it the good guys...
>> Have a nice day...
>> ATB
>>>     Dear Aftermath,
>>>     Are you sure about that source. If so take a look at what the
>>>     Electronic Frontier Foundation says about it. They do a lovely
>>>     simple to understand tutorial on it. After reading it I think
>>>     you will be advising our colleagues of a different source.  We
>>>     wouldn't want to be getting our younger and perhaps more naive
>>>     colleagues into trouble, would we😐
>>>     ATB
>>>     Dougie.
>>>     On Jun 10, 2014 1:09 PM, Aftermath <aftermath.thegreat@xxxxxxxxx
>>>     <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','aftermath.thegreat@xxxxxxxxx');>>
>>>     wrote:
>>>         thepiratebay.se/torrent/8020643/The_Wire
>>>         <http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/8020643/The_Wire>
>>>         its great
> — Maarten Billemont (lhunath) —
> me: http://www.lhunath.com <http://www.lhunath.com/> –
> business: http://www.lyndir.com
> <http://www.lyndir.com/> – http://masterpasswordapp.com
> <http://masterpasswordapp.com/>


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