Once again, thank you very much for your urls. They are so enlightening. I
haven't quite seen anything like them on here in a long time. Please keep them
I think that what Michael Moore saw, not only scared him, it scared many of us.
I have never seen a political campaign like it. His recent outburst too at the
Scouts Jamboree, must have produced a lot of shocked citizens, though there
will always be the stalwarts who support him. My mouth was so agape during
most of the campaign that the local flies thought it was somewhere to nest!
Trump is most certainly testing the limits of his power...and so publicly
too...and, because he is new to this type of game is making a lot of mistakes.
I dare say that there is lot going on in private too. I suppose, with the type
of character he has, it's going to take him a while to "fit in", get to "know
his place" so to speak, in the US political, state and bureaucratic hierarchy.
But, I dare say, like most other Presidents, he will get there...and the
results may not be to many folk's liking, but as George Washington once said,
"one cannot please all of the people all of the time"...:-)
As you so truly observe politics is a mire, of course, it always has been, so
far as I can see. It isn't the place for truth, or logic, or justice or
kindness or anything like that, it is more about the ruthless political motive
of sharing out the spoils between the victors, and leaving the bones to the
conquered. People get confused that it has got something to do with doing
good, particularly politicians, and of course, religion gets wrapped up in it
too. They all want their say and their little bit of the cookie. And most
political leaders come a cropper, particularly the leaders, because, by the
time they get to the top, they have already done their various deals with the
most powerful and vested interests around them, and have left themselves very
little room for manoeuvre.
Regarding my Social Darwinist quote...and there was I, thinking that my quote
was quite original, just goes to show that there is no original thought in this
world, just a different time/thought/space bubble. Ah! Well...at least it
wasn't Marx, but the man who lay next to him in Marx & Spencer's Corner at
Highgate Cemetery. I am of course, guilty of using labels too at times...and
often getting quotes wrong...I sometimes make them up too, to suit the
occasion, and give them some authority by choosing a famous name, such is the
art of deception....:-). Most people don't notice, or take it with grace.
Nice to see that you are so astute and observant and I am always very grateful
to those who point out my mistakes and correct me...nicely ...though, be warned
because I am somewhat guilty of doing it deliberately at times...just to make
sure that someone is listening....:-)Aaa
Have you ever read Darwin's work, by the way...in the original...and that of
Spencer, in the original? They are available on the web these days. I
downloaded Darwin's Origin of the Species, the laws of Natural selection, a
couple of months back from Amazon, I think it was, available for free too.
They are very difficult to read, almost as bad as Marx, the language is so
quaint and feels really ancient. I haven't read Spencer at all. Thank goodness
you told me that he recanted his words. I won't read it now. However they do
look good in my little library. Not that I am a particular supporter, either
of Darwin or Spencer. It is as well to remember that Creationism like
Evolution, are only theories, though some believe in them like they are the 10
commandments writ in stone by God, except the Mormons of course, their leader
thought that they were writ in Gold...in another place.... in the US...:-)
Did I tell you that I read 40 of the 42 original works by Vladimir Ilych Lenin?
They were published by the Moscow Publishing House for little money. I only
did the 40 volumes, because, just as I was about to read the 41st., I found out
that Stalin's butchers had murdered them before publishing. C'est la vie!
The Charlie Gard case. Do you know, my heartstrings were really pulled by poor
little Charlie Gard, and the pain and suffering his parents are going through.
A really horrible case for all concerned. I had a brother who nearly died of
meningitis when he was born. It occurred 7 years before I came into this
world, and there was no National Health Service then, because it was before it
was created in 1948. My mother, in desperation wrote to Alexander Fleming and
managed to get some very scarce penicillin through him. There were six
children in the same maternity ward who suffered the same illness. Out of the
six, one was blind, one was deaf, one was dumb, and two died, leaving my
brother, who suffered complete deafness in one ear, along with some other
damage. If my mother hadn't done that, he would have been dead. How on earth
she found out about the penicillin, I don't know; but she did tell me of the
hell, she and my dad went through, for weeks and weeks afterwards. It can be
very difficult to let go, and they have fought so hard. My wife and I
supported the parents all the way...right until we heard about the brain
scans...I think it is wise that they have now realised when to let go. And,
over the years, they will realise just how much they have learned about
themselves and our society, through the magnificent struggle they carried out
to do the best for their son. Even President Trump offered his support. I did
have my doubts regarding the US expert saying that he might be able to cure the
problem, without seeing the child first. It was quite remarkable too, that the
parents were able to raise £1.4 million in crowdfunding to help finance
Charlie's care. The power of the internet.
Using the NHS here is not about the survival of the fittest, in the sense of
being the strongest or with the most clout, but through being the most
flexible, as I and my family have found out, now that I am getting older. But
it has always been that way, as far as I can see. I don't use its services
very often, and I am not going to say it is the best in the world, but one does
have to learn how to use it. The government keeps trying to privatise it and
get rid of it for others to make profit out of, or to sell the services to the
private circuit. I have certainly appreciated it. One hears horror stories of
course, but I must say that I have had good services from it and the staff have
been very kind. I am also obese and lazy as well as retired these days, and it
is difficult to keep ones diet in check, there is so much delicious food to eat
and wine to drink; far more than I was when I was younger. We had rationing
in 1945 and I remember the last things to come off the ration, was the sweets.
As the red blooded capitalist says, one has to learn to live by red blood and
tooth and claw, if one has to survive in this world...along with a little help
to and from ones neighbours, and learning various skills, to keep the costs
down of course.
Funny you should mention Solyent Green...One of the pieces of music I had
requested in my last will and testament, was Beethoven's "Pastoral" 6th
Symphony. The part where he is going through the woods and just before the
thunderstorm. I really loved that piece...Until, I saw the film a couple of
years ago. At the end of the film, they played him out with the very piece, as
the poor guy lay there dying, waiting for his body to be turned into food for
the living. Now, I have changed it to Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah".:-)
Keynes spoke correctly when he said that we are all going to die. Very astute
of him. Have you ever read any his works? He was part of the Bloomsbury
Group, you know. A very famous and very wealthy "Bohemian" upper class group
which had a major influence on English Literature, Economics and Culture in the
late 18th Century.
Could you tell me where there is a socialist society these days, which doesn't
practise the very same rules as a capitalist society? Do you think that there
is a difference, or that one does it better than the other, whatever better is?
Trump reflects on his belly button in his New York tower penthouse as he looks
over the Park at sunset...:-)
Can you remind me of the 1st Amendment again....
P.S. I used to have a little dog called Terry. He was a fox terrier. He was
like Ferlinghettis dog, but he used to fart and eat chickens...raw.
25/07/2017 09:22, Chien Fume wrote:
Michael Moore simply looked outside his prejudices for a short time. What he
saw scared him... and this primordial existential fear drove him to set the
stage for what we now see as an all-out anti-democratic, libelous attack on an
Like the fabled donkey who found a lion's skin and went around scaring all the
animals, Moore and others in his ideological cohort had gotten accustomed to
telling everyone what to think... comfortable with 'creating reality' by
well-known propaganda techniques... scaring others with their incessant braying
that others mistook for a lion's roar.
But then a real Lion came along, and the Lion knew the difference between the
braying of a jackass and the roar of a Lion.
Extending this fable to current events... other lions gathered 'round this
Lion... and by a democratic process they put him in charge of the whole
country. But the jackasses had spent decades getting inside the administrative
systems and even before the election were getting prepared to defend themselves
and their fraud.
Not to worry. If one looks at the gestalt of current events, Trump is carefully
moving forward... testing individuals, using the system to remove the decades
of slime and shit that have covered a noble and valuable system (the U.S.
Constitution). Wouldn't surprise me if Trump rescinds the unnecessary 'National
Security' directives that have defined United States policy since 1947. That's
what those who voted for him want.
I doubt that Trump qualifies as a Social Darwinist. I think it was Spencer who
came up with the 'survival of the fittest' slogan.
As I recall, Spencer recanted some (but not all) of his early statements in
support of Darwin's hypothesis (yes... I think it's hypothetical, not
theoretical, because there are too many instances where Darwinian claims are
falsified; such as the flagellar motor https://youtu.be/TokXogAzHKU ).
Socialized medicine is truly a 'survival of the fittest' scheme... as shown by
the fiasco over Charlie Gard. Or what I've seen happen to friends here in
Useless eaters, (and seriously ill brats like Charlie) are a drain on The
State. Unless, of course, they can pony up huge fees for care that's supposed
to be provided by the 'People's Republic of Big Rock Candy Mountain'. There's
always care for members of the Inner Party.
In general, 'Socialism' practices "survival of the fittest", with The State
ALWAYS taking precedence over people. Of course The State determines what is or
isn't fit. And The State funds itself by asset forfeiture and/or debt (fiat
currency such as the Keynesian system).
Somebody pointed out to Keynes that his ideas might work for a while, would
benefit a few; but, in the long run would fail because the debt would be
Keynes reportedly replied 'in the long run, we'll all dead'.
It's this nihilism, fatalism, death-worship stuff that doesn't fly with those
who've lived in a genuinely free society where one could find work or start a
business rather than line up at the Public trough (where Soylent Green is
available once a week).
Trump reflects the deep truths embedded in the U.S. Constitutional system and
the first Ten Amendments.
True, these values haven't always been actualized... yet they remain the
foundation of what it means to be 'American'... classical Age-of-Enlightenment
Liberalism... the product of thousands of years of struggle to establish truly
Human governmental-societal systems. People want to go to America because they
can still achieve a level of freedom, often of prosperity, that can't happen in
the places from which they come.
Read (or listen to) Murray Rothbard's 'Anatomy of the State'
Note to all 'Frogs' everywhere; Don't give rides to scorpions. If you find
yourself in a pot of water, get out immediately. Look before you leap.
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:16 PM, douglas rankine
All I am saying is that he was one of the few who predicted that Trump was
going to win, before he did...and he gave his reasons. Whether his reasons
were valid or pleasing or not, isn't the point I was making, he did something
most of the rest of us didn't do. He thought about it and said it...and was
proved right, gives him more street cred than a lot of other people.
Donald Trump is probably a nice chap, full of bonhomie, hugs and kisses and
looks after his family, wives and children very well. And he obviously wants to
do good for the American people, by saving their jobs and bringing more jobs
home. He wants to make America great again. He also wants people to understand
that if they are going to get fat and lazy, then they wont be able to depend on
the state for health care and sustenance. He is a firm believer in the social
Darwinist principle that that it is the survival of the fittest, meaning
strongest, and not the most flexible. And it isn't his fault that deregulating
industrial practices means that certain large corporations will use this to
remove safety rules, environment rules and building and fire safety practices.
He is also a great believer in using the law to protect himself and his
interests, having involved his lawyers in over 4000 cases, a number of which
included bankruptcies of various kinds, some of which he won and some of which
he lost. Other cases were fought and lost over building and planning
regulations with which his companies hadn't complied, many of which are still
outstanding. He has created a great deal of employment for slick lawyers and
whiz kids. He appears to want to be friendly with Putin and Russia, and wants
to try and establish better relations with a view to extending trade, such as
some of his Trump Towers in Moscow. He hasn't had the time yet to launch his
own war somewhere in the world, but is allowing the wars with which the US is
already involved to carry on and develop. Personally, I wouldn't know what he
is like, never having met him, so I cannot judge. I see that his press
secretary resigned today...obviously unhappy about the way he has been
treated... I went into Trump Tower once...I was very impressed with the
On 21/07/2017 05:31, Chien Fume wrote:
Michael Moore, like other Progressives, has always been seething with
irrational hatred fueled by uncritical inferences and strident, dogmatic
rhetoric. This wasn't troubling when he focused this hatred on individuals and
groups who openly espoused racism and anti-Constitution ideology. But, finally,
Moore's hatred turned upon the very people who (historically) made possible the
freedom and liberty he enjoys... freedom and liberty to dissemble.
Douglas Rankin wrote that Moore was 'prescient' regarding Trump's victory. I
can't see any prescience... only a kind of desperate and temporary
acknowledgment of what was actually going on (not what Moore and his fellow
travelers wanted to go on).
Like many others, Moore saw the amazingly huge crowds who were turning up
everywhere Trump went. He also saw the polls (formal and informal) indicating
support across the socioeconomic spectrum. Moore was that Trump was going to
win and got busy as a beaver shaping the rhetorical base that's currently
trying to smear Trump and undo the democratically-determined 2016 election.
Imagine that! Democrats working their collective asses off to undermine and
nullify the democratic process.
To this end, Moore wrote a splendid hate-filled screed informing his cult
followers to get ready for Trump, who he described as a "wretched, ignorant,
dangerous part-time clown and full time sociopath".
It matters not at all that nothing in Trump's well-documented life supports
this unfounded claim. Merely saying it makes it true and rings the bells in the
bat-infested belfry of the Progressive collective.
Moore lists 5 reasons for Trump's then-pending success. All of them far more
wretched and ignorant than anything Trump has every proposed or done, making
Michael a better example of a 'dangerous part-time clown and full time
sociopath' than Trump. But that's how Alinsky indoctrinated, spoiled and
selfish Dr. Spock baby boomers in Moore's cohort tend to process their
Moore is a top-shelf filmmaker who, I've heard, made a careful study of Leni
Riefenstahl's films. Michael is also one of the best propagandists since
Goebbels. But he's also a fat, arrogant, wealthy white man... meaning he's in
the same class as the people he hates and blames for all the wrongs of the
world. He joins the strident racists who brazenly declare the necessity of
eliminating 'White People'... showing, again, a strange ignorance of genetic
reality. But Moore's audience applauds when the sign goes up telling them to do
so. Pavlov would be impressed!
Blood is beginning to flow in the streets of America. It's only beginning. The
chicken-killing dogs of the Progressive Democrats have gotten a taste of this
blood, and felt the excitement of the chase.
But there are more licensed hunters in America than in most armies of the
world. A huge majority of this group has gotten too accustomed to living in
genuine freedom... and most of them know what must be done to any dog that
starts to kill chickens.
Unfortunate, for sure. But in this case, it's understandable that the people
who voted for Trump are tending to adopt the ethical principle 'do unto others
what they intend to do to you, before they do it to you'. At this point, there
aren't any other options.
Here's the link to Michael's thing about Trump.