On 03/10/14 17:00, Bill St. Clair wrote:< <<Yeah. I've never understood the non-violent demonstration idea. I'm sure it's fun, but I don't see any reason that the oligarchy should care. Let the people have their fun, as long as they pay their taxes on time, and don't harm the gendarms.
Really want to change the world? Make a plan to take out the entire police organization of your country. If you have a real mass movement, it won't be hard. They're hugely outnumbered. Even if your only guns are theirs, you'll still win.
Of course, things might be worse after your revolution. Much worse. -Bill >>> Hi Bill,Yup...that is always the problem. Get rid of one lot and replace them with another lot...this time, hopefully, it is ones' own lot who are in charge, and then one sits on the top of the great pile of shit, like the Emperor with no clothes, whilst all ones followers tell one how wonderful one is.
Mandela and the ANC got rid of aparthied which was great, only for it to replaced with a much more violent society which is much the poorer, but at least they have freedom and choice and elections and equality.
Mugabe got rid of the white rule of Rhodesia and the Brits. He never paid much attention to the constitution he helped set up, negotiated quite carefully at various meetings in London; which had a clause in it protecting white farmers for a number of years, in return for which he would receive various grants from the old colonial master. He ignored it and the takeover of the white owned farms occurred. The aid and the grants stopped.
The liberation fighters were well trained, and good at making war, and deserved to have the farms, after all it was their land, their country; but when it came to farming...they had a lot to learn. If only he had hung on for a few more years, he would have continued to receive international aid, and Zimbabwe might have been a more prosperous country. Still, that's the way of the world. Too much impatience and a craving for instant gratification...I blame it all on the advertising media myself.
To be honest, in my younger days, I went on loads of demonstrations, mainly to do with stopping the war in Vietnam and trying to keep the British government out of it. I was on some of the big ones too, outside the U.S. Embassy in Grosvenor Square, some of which were particularly violent. I have to say that I never participated in violence, always did as I was told by the police, was always very polite to them, and never got charged or arrested or detained. On one occasion, I managed to get into Downing Street (before they installed big iron gates across the front) along with lots of others and climbed one of those lovely London lamposts with the arms sticking out of the sides, so that I could get a better look at what was going on. A little later, when things had settled down and the police had got over their surprise at being outmanouvered and got their act together, along comes a bobby on a horse and tells me to get down, and get out of Downing Street, forthwith and with alacrity (after all it belongs to the Prime Minister). Lot's of press photographers took photos of the incident, so I dare say that my picture will be around somewhere in the historical record.
Because I wasn't quick enough his horse accidentally knocked me off the pole and I lost my shoe in the process. I had to get out of Downing Street with one shoe missing. However, I had the audacity to ask a policeman on the line if I could return to get my shoe as the prospect of walking through London and getting on the tube was anathema to me, without my shoe. Much to my surprise the kind policeman allowed me through the police line to retrieve my shoe from the gutter and I dutifully returned through the line, thanked him very much, received a smile in return and went on my way. I will always remember how lonely I felt being stuck in the middle of Downing Street all on my little ownio, surrounded by horses and policemen. I doubt it that sort of event would happen today, manual of disobedience or not... :-).
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:20 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:For those of you who want to learn to demonstrate nicely, properly and efficiently and change the world...see url: http://www.actupny.org/documents/CDdocuments/CDindex.html where there is a complete and comprehensive training programme which you can download here on url: http://www.actupny.org/documents/CDdocuments/CDindex.html There is even sections on philosophy, psychology, how to talk nicely to police and what to do if one is...inadvertenly...I am sure detained and arrested. Know your rights. Forgive the cynicism, but I never realised that I have entered a world where everyone is a gentleman...and a gentlelady, where politics is about social decorum and that the wealth of the world will be shared equally in true communist manner. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"...As Karl Marx once said.