[cryptome] Re: MIddle East, Israel & Hamas

  • From: Ryan Carboni <ryacko@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 11:33:55 -0700

Funny. I'm sure I'd be a libertarian if my life was horrible, but a fascist
if my life was blissful.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:04 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>

>  Hi Ryan,
> The trouble is, that I find it difficult to put a name to it...whatever
> "it" is...When I was young politics was simple, you were either a
> capitalist or a communist or an inbetweener.  Everything and everyone was
> politically categorised.  Fascism was ultra right wing, Conservatism was
> right wing, Liberalism was middle of the road, Socialism was left wing,
> Communism was ultra left wing...and then there was all sorts of extremism
> to the right or left of all of that.  Economically, if you were a free
> trader, a survivor and believed in no welfare and paying for health etc.,
> you were a capitalist, if you believed in free comprehensive education,
> welfare benefits, and people depending on one another you were a Socialist
> and free loader and an extremist.  The colours of the political parties
> went from deep blue to wishy washy pink to blood red. Nowadays, whether one
> is right or left it don't seem to make a lot of difference.
> A common phrase in my time was "prospective parliamentarians talk left and
> when elected vote right", and the higher up in the political heirarchy one
> goes, the more fascist one seems to get.  The quest for power becomes
> absolute, politically, economically, socially, globally, and it doesn't
> matter whether one was left or right, or communist or socialist when one
> was younger and without any power.  In the end, the only difference I could
> see between Soviet Communism and Western Capitalism was the colour of the
> carpets and the idols who were worshipped standing in the foyer, and the
> flags and language on the missiles they had pointing at one another.
> Nowadays, we are expected to support the lesser of two or more fascistic
> governments with arms, money and intelligence, all in the cause of
> democracy...The UK government proposed giving the ISIL liberation and
> freedom movement £800 million to fight Syria and bring down the fascist
> regime there a year or so ago, until common sense prevailed in parliament.
> Yet they couldn't afford to give their own population more than a £100
> million to pay for the flooding and loss of property earlier on this year.
> There is a personal element too, in my view...no matter what ones'
> politics or personal philosophies are; when one gets tired or stressed, it
> can bring out the "fascist" in one, one loses patience, when one gets
> needled, or ones' ego is under threat, one gets frustrated, the temptation
> to fascist behaviour is there, insult, throwing bricks, belittle, undermine
> etc..  When one is happy and everything is going well in ones' world, it
> brings out ones communist temperament...It's like the effects of having a
> couple of good malt Scotch whiskies at a Burns Supper...and before the
> hangover kicks in the following morning.
> Personally, most of the time I am an agnostic liberal...These days,  what,
> with my age and the state of the world, perhaps I have turned into an old
> grumpy...perhaps there is no perhaps about it... ;-)
> Dougie.
> On 23/08/14 21:59, Ryan Carboni wrote:
>  It's communism. Except instead of worshiping some ideal system of
> relations, they celebrate a cruel and vicious god.
>  Question of the day: can these people outdo the communists? Can they
> outdo Rwanda? Can they do it?
> On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>>  Dear Colleagues,
>> I am not a supporter of any state, or political system, or any religion
>> and as close to being a pacifist as one can be without being one.  I don't
>> support terrorism either, whether it be by a so called liberation or
>> revolutionary organisation, or by a nation state.  Having said that, and
>> after reading the confidential Israeli Project Report of 2009, available on
>> Cryptom
>> *e. * see url:
>> *2014-1040.pdf 
>> <http://cryptome.org/2014/07/il-global-language-dictionary.pdf> *
>> I did some research on Hamas and where they came from and what they
>> believe in and what actions they have taken since coming to power in Gaza.
>> Their history is that they developed out of the Muslim Brotherhood in
>> Egypt, many, many decades ago.  The same group which was recently deposed
>> from power in a military coup organised by the Egyptian armed forces, after
>> their elected leader was arrested for advocating and organising violent
>> methods to spread the cause of the Brotherhood, whilst state President.
>> Hamas advocated a policy in the past which they have yet to revoke, which
>> says that Jews are the lowest scum on the  planet and to be removed from
>> their lands and that Israel should not be recognised as a state.  You can
>> look it up on the web if you don't believe me...
>>  see url:
>>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant
>>   And, I have to say that I am not surprised that Israel are calling up
>> their reservists and preparing to attack Gaza again, if not occupy it.
>> They have already resumed returning fire after Hamas fired rockets at them
>> killing a 4 year old boy.  I don't know what one does to stop these rockets
>> being fired on the civilian population of Israel willy nilly and I don't
>> know what I would do if someone tried to take my home away from me with no
>> legal redress for me to get it returned.  I do know how I would feel being
>> told that I had to get out of my house or area because it is going to be
>> targetted by bombs and rockets though...full of resentment, and I dare say,
>> hatred towards the perpetrators; to say the least.  Hitler thought that he
>> could get the British people to submit to him by attempting to bomb London
>> and other major cities out of existence. He thought that they would blame
>> and turn on Churchill...didn't work of course...doesn't work like that.
>> Hitler wasn't the first to think that...and he obviously isn't the last.
>> The USA tried it in Vietnam.
>> The Middle East is becoming a right old mess, with masses of people being
>> murdered, raped, abused, tortured, captured, enslaved, made homeless and
>> countryless.   The "western" powers have really helped screw things up too,
>> and have to take their share of the blame.  Now they don't know what to do,
>> except a bit more bombing and violence, and supplying arms, logistics and
>> intelligence to people who were once enemies and now being considered as
>> friends...or the lessers of two evils...or the evils of two lessers.   They
>> are sending in some humanitarian aid, peanuts of course, compared to the
>> massive expenditure on war materials over the last 15 years.  As Christian
>> countries we don't want to welcome even Christian refugees from the Middle
>> East to our countries, even though our Christian governments are a large
>> part of the problem.
>>  I don't understand why cutting off someone's head whilst they are
>> handcuffed and still alive, filming it, putting it on youtube and boasting
>> about what a great achievement it is, and saying how brave and
>> revolutionary they are; or how such an act will get me to support Islam, or
>> Moslem philosophy, or how it is supposed to make me either fear them, or
>> make me fall in love with their religion and adopt their belief systems
>> either.  To think that some of these extremists were educated and lived in
>> the UK for most of their lives, they didn't starve, they have decent
>> homes...there may have been discrimination at some point in their lives,
>> but surely the UK wasn't that bad. There is some kind of sick and faulty
>> logic there.  I know that there are some nasty practices and theories
>> described in the Christian Bible and know about the Crusades of early
>> Christianity, and I assume that there must be similar descriptions in the
>> Koran.  Those books are not the only sources of inspiration or ideas or
>> imagination in the world, and never have been.
>> I don't understand why, either, those rich Arab States such as Qatar and
>> Saudi Arabia, Bahrain or Iran are not sending lots of humanitarian aid to
>> Gaza and encouraging peace, helping it to rebuild instead of supporting the
>> likes of Hamas, whilst doing little or nothing to help the citizens of
>> Palestine. Arabs have lived in the Middle East since time immemorium, for
>> at least 3000 years.  The Jewish religion has been around for 2500 years
>> and the Christian religion for 2000 years and the Muslim religion for 1600
>> years. There have been many mass migrations into and out of the Middle East
>> in that time.  Is it a struggle for dominance, for ownership of land and
>> resources between Muslim and Jew, is it religion, is it beliefs and if so,
>> is this really the best, or the only way to go about it.  Huge sums are
>> being spent on armaments for the region which are then supplied by the U.S.
>> and the U.K. and other European countries, to various countries, such as
>> Egypt and Israel, and Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whilst huge amounts are spent
>> by the Russians and the Chinese on the likes of Iran.  The terrorists
>> appear to get supplied by everyone, one way or another.
>>  I am old enough to remember the IRA and Protestant terrorist
>> organisations in Northern Ireland using bombings, kidnappings,
>> kneecapping, torture and other forms of violence to punish or keep certain
>> dissenting sections of the population in check, self-policing they called
>> it, showing their might and strength. They also raised money from
>> businesses by using protection rackets of various kinds, as well as
>> fund-raising from gullible people and states abroad.  The money was used to
>> buy arms from the likes of Libya and through back doors from some of the
>> main arms manufacturers.  And I remember too, the bombings in London, I was
>> living and studying there at the time.  Though the explosions were
>> frightening, they didn't change my mind or stop me from carrying on as I
>> have always done.  In fact they made me more determined, that the peaceful
>> protest is and always will be the best way to progress and move society
>> forward.  Eventually, the IRA and the Protestant groups screwed the nut,
>> realised that they were on a hiding to nothing and negotiated a ceasefire
>> and eventually, a peace agreement and destroyed their weapons and adopted
>> the political route.  People are now a lot better off, alive and kicking,
>> even though the economy has slowed down a lot.
>>   It is no use, it seems to me to allow Gaza to have a free right to
>> import what it likes, when even the cement given by the Israelis for
>> building and rebuilding homes and other facilities is used to build
>> tunnels, where the terrorists can move banned goods such as armaments and
>> hide and launch attacks on Israel, yet the ordinary people cannot get
>> access to them for protection from the bombings by Israel.  Elected or not,
>> Hamas is a terrorist organisation, in my mind, and being elected does not
>> mean that terrorist methods should be used to subdue the population, or to
>> attack another state just because they are different and don't want to
>> recognise their existence.
>>  The Vietnamese used tunnels to protect their populations and industries
>> when they were fighting against a foreign state occupying their land and
>> which was attempting to take it over permanently, for the reason of killing
>> off the communists and proving the "Domino Theory".  In fact there were
>> tunnels under Da Nang Air Base with quite a sizable community producing
>> goods to help their war effort, unsuspected by the USA.  Wouldn't happen
>> nowadays, of course, such projects are well known around the world, the
>> element of surprise has gone, and all  sorts of technology can be used to
>> find out where the tunnels are, and attacks have to come from somewhere.
>> In Gaza there are tunnels which not only bring in goods which break the
>> blockade, but penetrate into Israeli territory, where attacks are made on
>> the civilian population.
>> It's a crazy ole world right enough...
>> ATB
>> Dougie.

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