the members of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.
"the native peoples of Canada"
synonyms: race, tribe, clan, ethnic group, strain, stock, caste, nation,
country, population, populace; More
As you know. I am not religious...i.e. I don't follow any religion. I have
an open mind about existence, my own and that of God, if there is one, and
other peoples. My nationality is Scottish, my people are therefore Scottish,
and have been since Scotland was labelled Scotland, or whatever other name
which means the same in other languages. I am also British, and I recently
became a citizen of the European Union. I am also a subject of the Queen
Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, and her State. I am a member of the human
species and occupy a tiny part of the world we call Planet Earth, in a much
bigger infinite place called the Universe, for shortness. I don't know why I
am here, I didn't know what I was going to do with my life. I didn't know
where I was going to end up, and I don't know how or when I am going to die.
When I got born, as far as I know, I didn't ask to get born, I didn't have a
choice in getting born, where I got born, or into which era I got born, or how
I got born, or why I got born, or who my parents were. I had no choice in
regards to my sex, my ethnic origin, my genes, my DNA. I had no choice in my
skin colour or texture, my eye colour, my hair colour, my shape, colour, ,my
size, my reproductive functions, my physical fitness or wholeness, or anything
else about me. I had no birthright. So far as I know, I had no language, had
no religion and was pretty dumb and stupid, so stupid, that, though I knew how
to get attention, particularly that of my mother for nurture, because I
couldn't even look after myself. All these facts were pre-determined and made
me into a human being, when I did get born. Someone gave me a name, someone
else, with a white collar round his neck, tried to drown me in a baptism font,
under the pretext of Christening me, in a big hollow room, whispering sweet
nuffinks, nuffink of which I understood. In short, my identity. There is one
big qualification to these facts, and that is; they may not be facts at all,
they might be no more than assumptions, educated guesses, beliefs based on
experience, or planted in my mind by some God or computer for ant, or because
my brain, has perceived these things from events at random, interpreted them,
built them into what they are from my imagination, once it learned to create my
mind and to create thoughts, and everything else wot goes with having a mind.
I really don't know...but I have spent a lot of time in my life on various
occasions thinking about it. In other words, perhaps it is not just
Palestinians who are fictions, we might all be!
All I do know, is that we Scots, are the chosen people. We are superior to
everyone else, we have superior genes, we have the oldest genes; because our
people have been around, in various guises, for over 10,000 years in the area
now called Scotland, and Northern Europe and Greenland and Iceland, and our
DNA contains almost every gene that was found in the human genome. Via a
number of mass migrations, spread over 100s of thousands of years, my genes,
through hundreds and thousands of generations, travelled all the way around the
world from Darkest Africa, over 5 million years ago, until they finished up in
Bognor Regis. In fact, every people has those genes, the same DNA, with a few
regional variations. In fact, we are all superior peoples, we are all the
same, though some of us are more stupid than others, and it tends to be those
who think that they are more clever than others.
The Scots and the English were old adversaries, going right back to the times
of Picts and Celts, the Stone people, the Irish, the Welsh, the Angles, the
Saxons and the Vikings, to name but a few. And they fought wars, they tried to
commit genocide, they massacred, tortured, raped and cannibalised each other,
not only with one another, but with each other, over land rights, tribal
rights, clan rights and even for sport, or just because they were plain
hungry...and it was the norm. Nowadays, they tend not to, apart from football,
and manage to resolve differences amongst themselves through negotiation. You
could say, we learned the hard way, but that doesn't mean that there will be
peace in the future, or for ever, not by a long chalk. It is not in human
nature for a start, in my view. I am a peaceful man, above all else, I am a
patient man, but even my patience can be disturbed...and I get really grumpy.
I have been aggressive and violent too, because some times others tried to
walk over me, and I have won some and lost some.
Now, I am not going to argue, that the case I am putting to you, or anyone else
on here is right, or wrong, or good or bad, or superior or inferior, but as a
theory on life it is just as good a theory as yours, or anyone elses, or any
other people's for that matter. All, I am saying, is for me...that is the
Now, my question is...where are you taking this?
On 25/07/2017 14:03, Chien Fume wrote:
NOTE: This essay addresses the fiction of "Palestinian" identity... the claim
that there was an ancient "Palestinian" people and culture that was displaced
by Jewish invaders. Talk about projection and displacement! Islam mastered the
art of deceptive narrative long ago... perhaps explaining why Marxist
intellectuals love them so much, even when they slaughter people like the
workers at Charlie Hebdo. Despite the total lack of historical facts, various
United Nations bodies have been busy since 1948 creating and teaching this
nonsense. Recently UNESCO ruled that Jews have no historical connection to
Hebron and the Temple Mount. What we're seeing here is identical to what the
NSDAP did in Germany and Europe with their fictitious "Aryan" identity. And, as
with the "Aryans", "Palestinians" are superior to any other group. It's all a
bit overwhelming, to be honest. But history shows that big lies like these
("Palestinian" and "Aryan") eventually crumble.
It’s the narrative, stupid
How do you characterize a population as a people? Most of us would say that a
people has some combination of language, religion, culture, place of origin,
and genetic makeup, and that its members identify with a historical narrative
that describes how they came to be.
The Jewish people is a paradigm case of a people, with a unique language and
religion, a definite origin, clearly distinguishable genetics, and a historical
narrative spanning thousands of years that is probably the most powerful story
in much of the civilized world. This is why it is so typically chutzpadik for
Palestinians to argue that there is only a Jewish religion and not a Jewish
The Palestinians do not have a unique religion, language, genetic identity, or
place of origin – unless you count having an ancestor who lived in Mandate
Palestine for at least two years as establishing rootedness there. But they
have a historical narrative with which they very strongly identify.
It is a relatively new narrative, having originated in the mid-20th century as
a reaction to the establishment of the Jewish state. It is to a great extent
false – there is no long-term ‘Palestinian’ presence in the land of Israel
(claims going back to biblical times are ludicrous, and few ‘Palestinians’ can
trace their lineage in the land prior to about 1830; most are descended from
20th century migrants). Their story about their dispossession by the Zionists
is also to a great extent false and self-serving. But none of this matters.
What does matter is that virtually all Palestinians believe the narrative, and
it is perfectly designed to combine with the features of the Arab and Muslim
culture of the Palestinians in such a way as to create endless, insoluble
conflict with the Jewish state.
The narrative tells of a proud culture rooted in the land, dispossessed by
foreign invaders who have no connection with it. It tells about humiliation of
the Palestinian people, their wealth and property taken from them. It tells
about a Muslim land being ruled by infidels, or almost worse, by Jews,
Mohammad’s historic enemies whose inferior role is demanded by the Qur’an. It
tells about Arab manhood being insulted by repeated military defeats by the
children of pigs and monkeys.
The narrative tells about an intolerable condition, and its collision with Arab
culture and Islam can’t be resolved by a compromise which permits the
continuation of Jewish sovereignty in any real sense. Any solution acceptable
to the Palestinians must include the return of their ‘property’ – that is, the
‘return’ of the descendents of Arab refugees to ‘their homes’. For Muslims,
there is also the fact that the entire land, having been ruled at one time by
Muslims, is a part of dar al islam and must return to Muslim rule. And of
course, no situation in which a Jew is superior to a Muslim in any way is
Worse, Arab honor, which was stolen by military defeat and which continues to
be taken by the daily humiliations of Israeli security measures, must be
regained. This requires equal humiliation and violence against the Jews.
But why can’t the Jews make a similar argument on the grounds that the rights
of the Jewish people were abrogated by the Arab conquest of the 7th century?
The Palestinians take this threat quite seriously, which is why they insist
that there is a Jewish religion but no Jewish people. And it is why they make
ridiculous statements like “Palestinians are descended from ancient
Canaanites,” “There was no Jewish Temple in Jerusalem,” or “Jesus was a
Palestinian.” It is why they are working assiduously to get UNESCO to declare
all Jewish historical sites to be Arab or Muslim.
As long as the Palestinian narrative is believed there will be no peaceful
two-state solution or any other compromise that allows a Jewish state to
continue existing. And as long as Arabs understand that their lost honor needs
to be regained there will be no end to murderous outbursts of violence against
Jews by Arabs.
These are not things that are in our power to change. There is no way we can
educate the Arabs to stop believing their narrative and to start believing
ours. No matter how kind we are, how conciliatory, how fair, how just, how many
concessions we make, how much economic opportunity we provide, the fundamental
problem remains. If you think I’m exaggerating, read this about
in general, and this about Arab citizens of
If anything, as time goes by, the narrative gets embedded more firmly in the
So does this imply that there is no hope?
Not exactly. There is no hope for a peaceful compromise, true. But there are
other ways a conflict between peoples – yes, I think their narrative makes them
a people, if not an ancient one – can end. One side or other can prevail, can
overpower its enemy to the extent that it gives up the idea that it can win,
and stops fighting.
The usual example of this is WWII in which the losers were crushed so badly
that they gave up, accepted occupation, and even changed their ways of thinking
so as to reject militarism and ultimately became allies of their erstwhile
enemies. But there is another example that is much closer to home and might
provide a model for a solution that requires somewhat less death and
devastation than that wrought by the bombing of Dresden or Hiroshima.
That is the example of the Arab citizens of Israel.
They are not any less committed to the Palestinian narrative. But most of them
have come to understand that they are not capable of overthrowing the Jewish
state. They lived under military rule from 1948-68, but since then have had the
same rights (if not responsibilities) of Israel’s Jewish citizens. The
combination of the perception of an overwhelming imbalance of power plus the
availability of economic options has not canceled the Palestinian narrative,
but has made it possible for them to live peacefully in a Jewish state. What
other country in the world can say that it has a 20% Muslim minority that is
not a source of violent instability?
The continued docility of our Arab citizens isn’t guaranteed. In order for it
to continue, there are several things that are important: they must continue to
understand that they will not obtain national rights in the Jewish state,
either by violence or political means, although their civil rights will be
protected. Israel will remain a Jewish state, not a binational one. The flag
and national anthem will not be changed, and there will always be a Jewish
right of return, and never an Arab one. The overwhelming imbalance of power
must be maintained. But at the same time their rights to equal treatment under
the law and their economic opportunities must not be foreclosed.
The same principles apply to the Arabs of the territories, although it is
probably not a good idea to suddenly grant them citizenship and hope that they
will behave like the Arab citizens from 1948. But we are presently far from
establishing the necessary imbalance of power as long as the Fatah and Hamas
organizations are operating. They and similar enemies of Israel must be
defeated and destroyed as a first step. We wouldn’t tolerate Fatah operating in
Tel Aviv, so we should not tolerate it in Ramallah either.
The strategic geography of the land of Israel implies that we cannot give up
control of Judea and Samaria and still be capable of defending our nation. That
in turn means that we have to deal somehow with its Arab inhabitants. Their
dedication to the pernicious Palestinian narrative precludes a Western-style
compromise, but if we can decisively end their ability to make war, then maybe
their only remaining option – as in the case of the Arab citizens of Israel –
will be to live in peace.