I think you are misreading me Peter...I wasn't in the slightest bit outraged or even feeling emotional about the article...rather I was more confused than anything else because all this stuff is so new to me, which is why I put down my thoughts on what you were asserting. I was only trying to understand what it was that you were alluding to in quoting the article. May I say that as far as I could see there were so many contradictions in the article that I couldn't make head nor tail of what it was you were trying to put across to me, to be quite honest. So I just thought I would have a stab at what I thought you intended it to mean...Like lawyers who extract principles from the evidence presented to them. I did warn you that I am a very poor lawyer...:-).
Perhaps you can help me by telling me how I made such a gross travesty of what Jonathan Azaziah said? If you could tell me a little more about what point it is that you are making or trying to make when you quoted him as a source? This might help to remove any ambivalence in our discussions.
For instance, you did say that "there was no mass extermination of the Jews and no holocaust" in an earlier posting at the bottom of the page. So, at least I have got that bit right. All I was doing was trying to do was to abstract some principles from the article you were quoting, and this was one of them.
May I draw your attention to a link which Chien Fume has given? If you have watched it, fair enough...though I do know how much you are pressed for time. I have the same problem with my gardens at this time of year. Like you with Wikispooks, it is a very complicated business getting it up and running, so many decisions, and plants, like information and facts, have a life all of their own.
Chien Quote <<<: I believe you'll find this video interesting/Dr Paul Strassmann on Partisan Warfare in World War II/ <https://youtu.be/r4m0wmCt42I> This lecture contains a brief segment on the bureaucratization of genocide. This part comes early-on in the presentation. This subject, I think, is something that ought to be concerning us today... since modern technology has made it possible to impose an even greater horror on the general population than was experienced in World War II. >>>end of quote.
In the meantime, I will have a look at those other sources you have quoted below. I wouldn't be interested in receiving the private material you mention. I would hate to be accused or held responsible if it got out. I have dropped enough people in the shit in the past either inadvertently or inadvertently (including meself) and try to avoid it like the plague. My motto is: if one is frightened to publish ...then don't...
And the purpose of this mailing list, after all, is to share information publicly, so that all who are interested, can learn.
On 10/06/2016 11:54, Peter Presland wrote:
No. It would NOT be fair.
That is such a gross travesty of the Jonathan Azaziah piece that I fear
there is little point in proceeding with this. Either you haven't read
it, or you are so outraged by what you have read that emotion has
trumped reason and prompted a caricature that misrepresents the entire
Here is another link. It is to 4 x short essays by an ex-patriot German
whom I am privileged to call a friend. He is a little older than you or
I. He has asked me not to publish the last essay as he may have to
return to Germany and, in spite of writing under a pseudonym, he would
undoubtedly be prosecuted and imprisoned were it to be published. I can
let you have a private link to it if you wish.
Meanwhile, I'll confine myself to mentioning just a few bald facts that
would prompt questioning of the Victors' history in which we are all so
well schooled to anyone with a genuinely open mind, were it not so risky
(career-destroying) to do so openly.
* In 1933, following Hitler's assumption of the Chancellorship, a New
York times headline read "JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY". It was a
bell-weather for US-UK MSM coverage generally from then on.
* The German Communist Party - like its Bolshevik brothers - was
dominated by Jews working to further the aims of that 'declaration of
war'. There was therefore considerable justification for Jews to be
viewed collectively as a '5th Column' of considerably greater threat to
the German State than, for example, Japanese Americans were to the US
State - who were likewise herded into concentration camps.
* Hitler made it clear from the outset of his Chancellorship that his
primary aim was to restore Germany's territorial integrity and
self-respect after the outrageous humiliation of Versailles. At a
minimum he wanted the lands ceded to Poland and the newly-created
hybrid State of Czechoslovakia (which were populated by 90%+ ethnic
Germans) returned to Germany.
* Kristallnacht did happen. But context (which you omit) is everything
and Hitler did promulgate a special law forbidding victimisation of
Jewish businesses and prescribing severe punishment for transgressors as
* It was Britain that then declared war on Germany. Two weeks later when
the Soviets too invaded Poland (and occupied considerably more Polish
territory in the process) - there was deafening silence from Britain.
*From the outset of the war, Hitler made repeated and strenuous efforts
to reach a reasonable peace with the Allied Powers. He was rebuffed on
numerous occasions but was slow to lose faith in the rationality of the
British wartime leadership. Perhaps most notably he allowed the BEF
(including my father) to escape almost intact from Dunkirk in 1940.
* There were no extermination gas chambers. The one shown to credulous
tourists was built by the Soviets AFTER the war had ended. The iconic
photo of a British Tommy bulldozing a mountain of skeletal corpses into
a mass grave and used to whip up post-war an anti-German frenzy on the
alleged extermination of Jews, was in fact taken at Bergen-Belsen, which
even Wikipedia acknowledges was NOT an extermination camp. It also
confirms the real cause of so many camp deaths - see below.
* The primary causes of death in the concentration camps were typhus and
malnutrition - predominantly in the last 12 months of the war. The
former fought by means of Zyklon-B de-lousing chambers for clothing and
giving rise to the extermination gas-chambers myth; the latter caused by
near-saturation Allied bombing that comprehensively destroyed food
transport and distribution systems.
* The Jewish scholar Raul Hilberg puts the pre and post-war Jewish
populations of Germany-Austria at 9.2 and 3.8 million respectively and
concludes that 5.4 million must have perished. He takes no account of
Jewish net emigration from the early 1930's which is generally accepted
to have totaled about 4.4 million. That would leave under 1 million
* Auschwitz is promoted as the main Jewish 'extermination camp'. Until
1990 a commemoration plaque put the number killed there at 4 million. In
1995 a new plaque claiming 1.5 million killed was installed. There has
been no corresponding reduction in the hallowed 6 million total figure.
* 6 million has esoteric significance in Jewish history in that it was
used repeatedly throughout the early 20th century when propagandising
the number of Jews allegedly 'at risk' from hostile Gentile governments.
And so on.
On 10/06/2016 00:09, douglas rankine (Redacted sender douglasrankine2001
for DMARC) wrote:
So, according to your posting and the urls below. Would this be a
fair resume of what you are asserting?
There was no Holocaust, and there was no mass extermination of Jews.
The NSDAP treated Jews equally with the rest of the populations of
Germany and Europe. That those Jews who did die, died of starvation
caused by the Allied Powers, along with many German people; and that
the Holocaust during the 2nd World War is a figment of the imagination
of a world alliance of Jews, the Jewish Lobby, historians,
politicians, the ruling establishments of the UK, the USA, Russia, and
France and it is all propaganda which was created to justify the
attacks and declaration of war on Germany in 1939 and the subjugation
of the people of Germany after the WW2. This whole Jewish myth is
perpetuated by the ruling circles of these countries by teaching it to
the children, including the children of Germany. It was the Allies
who carried out the atrocities during the last war, starving the
people and launching a war of mass destruction against the German
people. It was the Allies who carried out mass carpet bombing of
German cities, which was directed at killing most of the civilian
people. The NSDAP and Hitler were just trying to protect the
interests of the German people through the use of the Brownshirts to
remove the enemies of the people, the communists, trade unions and
social democrats, the ethnic minorities, such as gypsies, and the
S.S. who originally looked after Hitler, were so good at doing their
job that they were specially trained to take care of the Jews; and
that the NSDAP and Hitler and the Wermacht only took action against
certain countries before the war to protect their economic interests.
There were no Kristallnacht in 1938 in Germany, or concentration
camps, no extermination camps, established in Poland and occupied
Europe, no policy and practice of "The Final Solution", just well
provided for work camps to help the German war effort, and the NSDAP
and Hitler did all they could to help the Jewish people and the people
of Poland and the peoples of Russia and the Slavs, even though they
admitted to being prejudiced against them in Clause 4 of their 25
points election manifesto, because they were strangling the German
economy and had taken over the main financial centres; and that the
pure blood of the superior intellectual Aryan race, would never dream
of treating subject peoples to such inhuman behaviour. No experiments
on camp inmates were carried out by Mengele, and people with mental
and physical disabilities were not exterminated but were sent off to
hospitals and nursing homes where they died by accident; and and that
the NSDAP and Hitler and the Wermacht, would never have attempted to
invade Russia if it hadn't been for Stalin breaking the German/Soviet
Pact? There was no NSDAP or German government policy in occupied
countries of transporting Jews, removing them against their will to
the fatherland, and that they all went voluntarily? There were no
forced marches or forced transportation of masses of Russians, Slavs,
Ukrainians and other ethnic groupings,and no policy of extermination
against them. The few that were deliberately killed were for reasons
of security,and only after a fair trial, or because they were enemies
of the German State. The Nuremberg Trials after the war, were nothing
more than a travesty of justice with the Victors prosecuting the
victims, and the evidence presented there in justification was no more
than the figment of the imagination of the Jews and other people who
presented it. The legal basis for the trials were non-existent,
crimes against humanity or crimes of genocide didn't exist in German
Law or in International law, and the 13 who were convicted at the main
trail in Nuremberg were victims of a miscarriage of justice.
On 06/06/2016 16:22, Peter Presland wrote:
Sounds fair enough to me Doug, but with a minor caveat: based on your
postings here I am likely to have less time than you to devote to this,
so long considered replies may take a while.
Since the following links, originally posted in reply to Chien Fume,
approximate to my developing understanding more closely than do the
establishment official narratives and they are wide-ranging, I will open
with them for starters.
An example of the outrageous deceptions of the
Paula's take on her bother Adolf Hitler.