[cryptome] Re: FBI v Apple Warrant; Questions of Security of the State and Privacy of the Individual

  • From: douglas rankine <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 21:14:39 +0000

Hi Michael,
Sorry...but I can't find the research paper...I spent a lot of time today looking but was unsuccesful...too many postings and too many entries on Cryptome...and I haven't any method or time left to narrow the search on Cryptome. Anyway, for present purposes in the Apple case it is irrelevant...perhaps you can look yourself if you have the time.

As I said I have brought it up a couple of times, and put in a url. It was close to the time that GCHQ had the Guardian's hard disks and motherboards destroyed on the premises. It was a research paper from one of the worlds universities. Also, I seem to remember that flash drives were also coming under criticism at the time due to their poor wiping facility...seems that ssd drives are even more susceptible to retaining information after secure wiping than ordinary hard drives. Something to do with the way that data is laid down on the hard disk. The research paper said that the forensic software was able to strip away the digital information layer by layer, right back to the virgin disk so to speak. How credible the research was, I wouldn't know, as I am not a scientist.

As a matter of interest, and a slight aside, I attended a large meeting the other day with University of the Third Age. We had a Coroners Officer, who was a qualified forensic scientist speaking and he told us how they are now introducing CAT scanners instead of cutting dead people open to do a post mortem. They are so sensitive that the information derived from the scan has been found acceptable as evidence in a court of law. Remote sensing and analytic forensic software has come a long way over the last few years, down to the nuons gluons and quarks, which appear to rule the roost these days.
ATB
Dougie.


On 20/02/2016 11:45, Michael Best wrote:

Data decays and successive rewrites makes some if not all of the data disappear. There's a limit to what can be retrieved, it doesn't stretch back indefinitely. If there's a *credible *paper that says there is no limit, I'd love to see it.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 5:50 AM, douglas rankine <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    Hi Michael
    No...it isn't an overstatement.  I read a piece of research
    published on cryptome some time ago which said this could be
    done.  I can't remember the name of the paper, but it was in the
    last year or so I think.  I will have a look for it and see if I
    can find it.  I do remember that did raise it on this mailing list
    at the time, so perhaps I will find it that way, as I usually give
    a url.  I personally don't  have the computer skills to know
    whether the research was valid, or of sufficient objective quality
    and of sufficiently high scientific standard, or what the limits
    explored were...

    If you remember,  whiz kiddies used by GCHQ  went into the
    Guardian Newspaper and took the computers apart and physically
    destroyed the hard disks so that no one would have access to the
    Snowden data...I believe that photos of the motherboard and the
    hard disks were published on Cryptome...there was some discussion
    at the time as to why they did this, the reasoning being that it
    was the only way they could assure that the Guardian physically
    complied with the court order...:-)

    Also, on further reading of the warrant below.  The FBI have
    established that the information on the iphone involved was backed
    up to the cloud, which means that information on the iphone will
    be available in the event of the iphone's storage devices being
    destroyed.

     The back up will not be a true reflection of the iphone of
    course, as it may be a little out of date. However, it does mean
    that the FBI will, if what I am saying is true, be able to get
    access to most of the information using their super-duper
    forensics and software... However, they still say that due to the
    uniqueness of the software and the processes, and the fact that it
    is copyright, they require the full co-operation of Apple to
    produce a file which contains the necessary forensics to overcome
    the non-erase featuere etc.
    ATB
    Dougie.


    On 20/02/2016 10:09, Michael Best wrote:

    On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 5:06 AM, douglas rankine
    <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

        Here is a question I have posed before....never did get an
        answer... As I understand it, any information can be
        retrieved from a digital storage device,going right back to
        the time it was first used, unless it is physically
        destroyed, even if it has been erased by the best of forensic
        cleansing.


    I think that's either an overstatement, or I misunderstand your
    meaning. (If it was knowing hyperbole, then just ignore me.)


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