[cryptome] Re: Do you suppose comments like this will get me on a government watchlist?

  • From: Andrew Hornback <achornback@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:17:23 -0400

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Gary Wallin <garylwallin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm not talking about things from bad movies. The only weapon I own is an
actual Jawbone of An Ass that I learned about from the words of one of the
dead gods. But we live in an age where mail carriers can land on White
House property, and drones can make big money for paparazzi gathering
celebrity photographs.

Real tools for makers and hackers are readily available. If our government
doesn't act responsibly, we have the basic human right to take matters into
our own hands.

Who defines responsible actions? Your definition may be different from
mine and may be different from every single one of the next 100 people you
lay eyes on.

That's what this nation did in 1776 when we told the King where to put his

So, flying a flag rises to the level of the Intolerable (Coercive) Acts? I
honestly don't think we're talking apples and oranges here, I think we're
talking apples and neutron stars.

Since the nation is too gridlocked to even think about issues,

Uhm, I disagree. I think we have plenty of time to think about issues -
it's just that society is more concerned about driving home the latest
definition of hero, the latest technology, the latest sex scandal and the
latest "must have items" for summer to really give a rat's ass about a lot
of important things.

taking down one of the symbols used to maintain the status quo might make
people begin to think and question what is really happening.

Status quo in South Carolina - Democrat in the Governor's office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_South_Carolina Before
this turns into a political issue, ask yourself - why is it that both
parties have NOT acted to remove this symbol that you feel needs to be
removed? How long has that flag been flying there? How many opportunities
have there been to remove it?

The cost of hacking this flag are even lower than the costs the government
pays in watching this list. I would prefer that reason and critical
thinking prevail; but our Federal Government has already killed many
innocents with it's drones

Pardon me, having a bit of whiplash from the sudden tangent there.

and it's insistance on arming the whole world.

Meanwhile the Chinese arm both sides of the Indian/Pakistani conflict...
and no one bats an eye. *head scratch*

And our local police departments turn a blind eye to momentary lapses of
lethal racism.

Example? Preferably more than one since you seem to be drawing an
unsupported conclusion here.

We don't have to emulate their terrorism,


but we can re-purpose some of their tools into non-lethal means that
encourage real change.

True change starts in hearts and minds, not at the business end of a
weapon... that's how the seeds of defiance grow.

We can turn their words into satire. And we can turn their symbols into
ashes. It is worth debating.

Great symbolism... who's going to play the acoustic guitar while we all sit
around the bonfire and burn these symbols? Oh, wait, that conjures up
images of other societies that we're not too fond of, doesn't it?

And what next after the symbols? Books? Information? Sure, throw
everything on the fire that you don't want the rest of the world to know
about - it's a great way to keep secrets secret and the population on the
same intellectual level as domesticated animals - not that they honestly
care as they warm themselves by the fire.

--- A

On 6/22/2015 10:07 AM, Shelley wrote:

On June 22, 2015 7:29:03 AM Gary Wallin <garylwallin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Do you suppose comments like this will get me on a[nother] government

Fixed that for you ;)

A Call for Debate: Should the South Carolina Confederate flag be hacked?

I think burning a flag in protest is still legal in this country, but
IANAL. Someone please correct that if I'm wrong. Maybe that right of
protest was executively signed away and made a drone-able offense. One
never knows, since everything is a secret (until it's not.)

We all have access to modified drones, high power lasers, and

other equipment that could fix this flag.

We do? You've either been watching too many bad movies, kid... or your
effort has failed, agent. Heh.

As amusing/satisfying as it might be, taking out a symbol isn't going to
change the underlying mindset of the particular populace that embraces it.
That is the real challenge.

If you "hack" it, they'll just put up a new one and you may end up in
some Deliverance prison. Making them *want* to take it down because they
understand the hurt that runs deep from the ideas it represents? That is
the real skill, grasshopper.


I'm basically a freedom loving person, especially when it comes to
freedom of thought and freedom of expression. I don't have a problem
with an individual thoughts and expressions. But I get upset when their
actions are harmful.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to fly a Confederate Flag, a
Nazi Flag, or even the modern American Imperial Flag (I personally
prefer the old Betsy Ross flag of 1776 when this county was fighting
against imperialism and not actively practicing it), that’s fine with
me. The kinds of flags people choose to fly gives my semi-autistic
neurons a heads-up on what potential values and interactions I might
have with them.

But I do have a problem when States and Government impose flags on me. I
think I should be able to choose the flag that represents my values. I
can understand why many people in South Carolina would object to a flag
that stands not only for heritage, but often for hate and racism. There
are many people in South Carolina who choose not to personally fly this
flag. But the State imposes it on them. If Governor Haley wants to fly
her own personal Confederate Flag, that’s fine with me. But when she
imposes it as representing the consensus of the people of her State, she
has gone to far.

Fortunately, there is something that can be done about this problem. The
flag can be hacked.

As makers and hackers know, it is possible to take out flags with simple
tools. We all have access to modified drones, high power lasers, and
other equipment that could fix this flag. People of good will could
simply take out this ugly symbol with a bit of skilled making and
hacking. No human being needs to be harmed or injured during the
process. The question is, should we? Maybe reason will prevail, and it
will come down by government decision making. Maybe not?

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