[cryptome] CIA Torture Program: Vietnam & Nguyen Tai

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:50:52 +0000

see url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program

for a brief description.   Nuffink new then...

see url: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no1/article06.html

The start of a remarkable story of a remarkable man...Nguyen Tai... The Man in the Snow White Cell. Well worth reading the man's own story too. "Face to Face with the CIA.

Am I making the moral argument for pro-torture...no.
Am I making the legal argument for pro-torture...no.
Am I making the ethical argument for pro-torture...no.
Last, and the most difficult argument of all in the torture/no torture conumdrum, in my view, am I making the "immediacy" argument...no.

Why not. Because for years this man (and I don't support his methods, he is no hero of mine, and I know that war removes all rules on civilised behaviour) was detained and tortured...by the South Vietnamese and by the C.I.A. Once again the USA had an undeclared and poorly hidden war going on. He was held in their absolute power for years and years...but he never confessed right up until the end, when he was no longer useful and at a time and programme of his own choosing. According to the article the CIA is very proud of its officers who conducted the interrogations...and according to them they accomplished a lot. But there you are, there are always different versions of history, and the ruling ideas in history rule in history and are lost with the vanquished. It is why the Vietnam war was important...for the first time the USA and American ideas and views of history were defeated...and its ruling circles have been fuming ever since. (a personal view)...

There was no war under the latest CIA torture programme. The USA govt is not at war with the rest of the world, and its people certainly aren't. There was no immediacy under the latest CIA torture programme. (Or if there was, I am still waiting to hear and see evidence of it, rather than some made up stories and myths)...and even then...I will never support torture. Why? Because it does not work, and there are other better ways eliciting information. Torture is not a way of getting at the truth. It has more to do with satiating some basic instincts in homo sapiens, drives, irresistible impulses, dressed up in learned behaviour which wears the frock of civilisation.

One wonders whether CIA torture methods were "better" then...or more "sophisticated" today...On second thoughts...I will stick to being wonderless...there are more important things in life to dwell upon.

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