[cryptome] Re: Ask Zelda

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 20:31:50 +0100

Oooops! My apologies.  I gave you the wrong url for Restless...url:

On 05/09/14 20:12, doug wrote:
Hi Lucas,
One of the problems with sorting out truth from lies...or disinformation...or deception in its various and many forms...is the ability to know or work out the truth. At the age of 69...I am still having a problem with it. The trouble is...that there are so many truths..the older I get, the more truths I find...and believing which one is true, is, in my opinion, a worthless exercise...though not necessarily valueless. Truth is relative and has different values to different people at different times. It is relative not to lies, but to deception and misinformation. Lies can be truths too...depends on whether one believes them or believes in them. Just as love is not the opposite of hate...indifference is.

One could write a book on it, but one of the best ways I gained a greater understanding of the problem, was to read the 23 novels by Le carre. The trouble is...that he can be and most often is, very abstruse...and one can spend a long time trying to work out what he is getting at. It is only after a while, that one realises that he is not getting at what you think he is getting at. Also, his work, though classic, is becoming more dated as time goes by and reflects a different era.

One example is to read the "Smiley's People" series, though most of his books are very good. One of his best ones, I have always felt, was "Absolute Friends" which describes the privatisation and Americanisation of intelligence, and how utopian values can be used to hide or disguise a dystopian outcome. Intelligence is a multi-faceted weapon, and whilst we all have our own individual intelligence, intellect, experience, beliefs and so on, we are still subject to the normal urges, instincts, drives, learned behaviour and belief systems which...as far as I know, every one else has. Our own worst enemy is often our egos and our ids...if one follows that aspect of psychology...though again, freud, or the behaviourists are not the only theories as to why human beings act as they do...there are plenty of others with equal value.

Harlots Ghost by Norman Mailer, is well worth a read, though it is a long book, you can start by looking at url:


Wikipedia, I have found is a very good way of starting to research a subject, one can look at the whole area or subject, then boil it down to those areas which one finds most interesting.

One doesn't quite know who Snowden is, where he got his information from, how much it has been sifted, and the likes of us secret service buffs have very little chance of finding out...because it takes access to classified information...big time, to find out and even then...

In the same way, you don't know who I am, as I don't know who you are...trust is often misplaced and most of the time ends up in betrayal. The maxim, the more one trusts, the more likely one is to be betrayed is a very powerful one.

If you are really interested in the subject read Restless by William Boyd...see url:

Some of this information is also available via films or television...but I find books and originals...where one can get them. are better, less subject to doctoring or fantasies of television directors, less confusing one one's perceptions and one can always read the passage again if one doesn't understand it. I am always a sucker for a good story...:-) .

Though I know it doesn't answer you question, I hope this helps...
"The foolish ask questions which the wise cannot answer" Oscar Wilde in Philosophies for the Young...

On 05/09/14 19:24, Lucas Gonze wrote:
How would disinformation be inserted in Snowden's downloads? Can you be more specific about the mechanism?

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:28 AM, John Young <jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    It is still not clear, and may never be, how much of the Snowden
    material is a deceptive ruse, and he may not know either. Nor
    do the outlets to which he provided the material, none of which
    had ror have the technical or espionage capability to evaluate,
    test, judge what is legitimate, what is salted as disinfo, what is
    illusory, what is sheer bluff -- all long-lived characteristics not
    only of military affairs but specifically about comsec and
    propaganda. The latter has always used the media for broadcasting
    deception, willingly done so by media then discounted later,
    the full spectrum of faith and infidelity.

    Official and private skeptics of Snowden assert a classic deception
    operation is underway, canards of deception themselves:


    To be sure, it is likely Snowden quietly distributed material to
    with capabilities lacking in journalists and polemicists, either
    or afterwards. This would be conventional operational security to
    not put all eggs in the omelets of journalism alone.

    There are hints in published accounts by Greenwald and Harding
    that before Snowden gained Poitras' highly skeptical confidence
    he was in contact with intermediaries who could vet his offerings
    with technical and espionage skills -- none have come forward to
    admit this prior Poitras-Greenwald-Gellman review but their names
    are online awaiting disclosure.

    Moreover, there seems to be parallel assessment of the Snowden
    caches, however many there are -- dozens of fragments have been
    shared according to published reports. But the alleged bulk of the
    material remains unreleased, ranging from 58,000 to 1.7 million
    items (pages or files). Gellman has never stated the size of the
    cache provided to him, except citing one example of examining
    200,000 pages to identify certain info.

    And it is noteworthy that all the reported holders of Snowden
    material claim to have checked with authorities before publication.

    Smoke and mirrors, for sure of which Bamford is a master.

    But then, Zelda, are we not all capable of playing the Zelda ruse.

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