[cryptome] Re: A Question of Trust: UK Report on Communications Surveillance via the Internet of Things

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 22:43:46 +0000

Hi John,
Tx for the reminder, and the update... :-). The report was written and published way back in May 2015 and presented to the UK parliament at that time, so obviously, it is not up to date. Like everyone else, even in my dotage, I have another life to lead, which includes holidays, diy projects and visits to foreign lands and alien cultures, as well as the country of my birth. So, I am sometimes a bit late to presenting an analysis of events. The trouble with the internet today is everyone wants instant analysis, instant verdicts and instant change, I often think... :-).

Also, thanks to Cryptome, (more...dare I say...power to its elbow...:-). I am well aware that the Snowden papers are coming out in dribs and drabs, and that it is extremely difficult to work out who, what or which suffers from an element of truth and who, what or which, is a product of bovine scatology...I personally am a Jack of all Trades rather than a master or professor of the subject...:-). (Though I have had some great teachers...:-)).

However, one has to work with what information has available to one at the time. (It is of course, one of the reasons I rely on your goodselves, to make available, in your own small way, whatever comes by your by your mailbox...:-). And I much appreciate and look forward to visiting the website many, many times a day...apart from when I am away on holiday... or engaged in diy...:-). Whether the web logs were deleted or not, is immaterial, and I don't give a shit...(Anyway, how does one delete weblogs...:-)). Certainly not by swearing so to a Grand Jury...:-). Of course, if they never existed, that is a different matter...(Michael Best...take note... :-)). Computer forensics is such an intricate subject, that even the UK Secret Intelligence Committee Report gets a bit confused, when it comes to protecting peoples rights and individual liberty when it comes to doing so by deletion of personal or private information from the records of law enforcement or the secret services. MI5 tried very hard to do so at the Gaurdian...the Snowden files are still out there. Still, it was a "symbolic act" a warning to others. They all have a hard disk, or for that matter, the WWW and the internet and the Cloud...what else can one expect. It was one of the reasons for me having a good laugh just recently, at the debate. Perhaps Michael in 20 years time will look back on it from the same perspective of time and the advancement of computer science, information and technology... :-).

I am also aware of my own instinctive (and perhaps well learned lessons) of behaviour which makes me highly distrustful of the powers that be, no matter who they are, how respectable they are, their class or social background, their blood relations, or how many letters they have after their name...who, in the pursuit of a "good" education, of course... :-), and a well paid job, looking after, servicing or representing the views of the people, indulge in all sorts of hanky panky to further their aims, yet who become bloodhounds in chasing the "extremists" and yet refuse to understand how their own behaviour is corrupt and considered corrupt when they are eventually held to account by the courts.

I am also just as wary of the libertines, who in the name of liberty and freedom would commit murder and other felonies and immoralities in the name of freedom, or self-justification or on the principle of the "end justifying the means".

In the meantime...I was perhaps, indulging myself, thinking that others would be as interested as I was in having a public and open...and, dare I say, transparent debate on the issues which present themselves to us at this particular time in history.

Because I am very interested in this report, seeing it as fundamental to the way things are going to develop in the next 10 or 20 years, I wished to present some kind of synopsis of it, and encourage discussion amongst our colleagues in the present situation regarding, security, mass surveillance, the nature and relationships between the state and individual, hopefully, in a non-threatening but constructive way, so that some kind of balance is achieved between the various interests, both vested or otherwise. A part of my utopian belief systems you may think...and...you would be right... :-).

The security situation is very fluid, the downing of the Russian Tourist flight on its way home from Egypt, the pictures of which so reminded me of the plane disintigrating over Lockerbie...see url:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
is a case and point.

The drones being unleashed upon the innocent is another. I had a long discussion with my son, a while back. He had lived in the US for a while. He was very supportive of Obama, seeing him as a democrat, a believer in freedom, a man who looked after his family and the well being of his nation. When I pointed out that over 7000 people, terrorists, alleged terrorists, their families, their children, people who were present in the locality, were all destroyed on his orders on the use of drones, the missiles fired from which were not based on any kind of international law, or trial or justice, or democracy, and where the non-terrorists were considered as combatants, he was quite shocked. He hadn't thought about it like that, he was disbelieving. I had to explain that the problem was not whether one disbelieved it, but how did one stop it. That is the problem for humankind.

However, when researching a subject, I do believe in looking at its widest extremes, its absolutes, its limitations, before it impinges on other areas, other containers of information. It is an old habit. Mind mapping of a subject, is the school to which I am an advocate.

Is there such a thing as absolute free speech, or absolute secrecy, is the ambit of my studies...In my view, of course not. There is always an area in between where rights to privacy, confidentiality and secrecy, whether it be by the individual or the state, impinges upon the freedom of people as individuals, or as organisations to think, to discuss and to act. Always has been that way, always will be.

If you have no objection, I would like to continue with my discussion of this report, even though it is somewhat out of date, because, from what I have discovered around cryptome and its mailing lists, and cypherpunks etc. there appears to be a misunderstanding of what human relationships are about, and the role which communications, electronic or otherwise should play in them. On a mailing list, such as Cryptome @freelists.org. Not only the metadata, but the content is available to the whole wide world. None of this dark web, encryption bullshit, like the German Wermacht after their defeat in World War ll it is all out in the open.
With kind regards,

On 07/11/2015 21:36, John Young wrote:


Only one of the Snowden archives is up to date, one is not up to date, one is not available.

Worse, none point out that 90-99% of the Snowden dump has not been released. This
means that what has been released could be misleading, even tampered with on
purpose or by ignorance.

Some journalists have called for a full dump release to allow many journalists and
researchers to examine the material to offset bias and ignorance of the few who
have had partial access.

Some critics suggest the few who have had access have adopted the practices
of spies in secretkeeping and exploitation of public trust. Not least by the
pernicious practice of consulting with governments before releases, allegedly
because that is what Snowden insisted upon.

One might wonder if the whole Snowden affair was intended to created confusion
and spasms of public support and opposition, a well-known means and methods of
official spies.

For the spies the Snowden affair has led to a dramatic increase in funding for
agencies and especially their contractors such as those Snowden worked for.

At 04:01 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
see url: https://terrorismlegislationreviewer.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IPR-Report-Print-Version.pdf

Dear Colleagues,
I am just working my way through the above report...when I came across the following references, which are part of the research used by David Anderson QC who wrote the report. For those of you who are interested in exploring such matters, I thought you might find the resources of interest...if not of value...:-).

A catalogue of the Snowden Documents placed in the public domain is maintained by the Lawfare
Institute: http://www.lawfareblog.com/catalog-of-the-snowden-revelations/. See also the Snowden
Digital Surveillance Archive: https://snowdenarchive.cjfe.org/greenstone/cgi-bin/library.cgi and The
Electronic Frontier Foundation: https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/nsadocs.

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