Philip, I don't think that 5-7 is before the age of reason, just that it is what we call child-like reasoning. Besides, Balaam's donkey reasoned, did it not? Neville. Oh I do tend to agree with you Neville. The age is purely nominal I can clearly remember to this day reasoning that there were certain things that I must do secretly to avoid being flogged by my parents, because I had reasoned that they must have been wrong to consider such pleasureable things as an evil. I was not much older than three years. There are many things that I can remember from that period. Now as regards Balaam's donkey , I had always assumed this might be supernatural intevention. A chimp will never think to get the available ladder or box under the bunch of bananas, to reach them .. would he? Philip.