Re: USF4 changes!
- From: Stephen Scheidel <gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:44:28 +0200
I'll take what I can get.
On 20/06/2014, Donaldson, Alasdair <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Liar. I know you like 12yr olds too.
> From: Stephen Scheidel [mailto:gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 07:09 AM South Africa Standard Time
> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>
>
> I prefer 16 beers.
>
> On 19/06/2014, Donaldson, Alasdair <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I prefer Jameson's 12yr old.
>> Will watch that when I get back to the hotel.
>>
>> From: Ilitirit Sama [mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:46 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>
>> I prefer Johnathon Black.
>>
>> This is a great ad:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSIp76CvUI
>>
>> One shot, 40 takes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair
>> <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> Just going the simple route - Johnny blue.
>> From: Ilitirit Sama
>> [mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:19 PM South Africa Standard Time
>>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>
>> Shot of Don Julio Reposado, slice of pineapple, dab of Wasabi
>>
>> Don Hara Kiri
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair
>> <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> Wtf? Some overkill there. Just stick to my tequila.
>> From: Ilitirit Sama
>> [mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:04 PM South Africa Standard Time
>>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>
>> That's called a Hand Grenade.
>>
>> One shot of tequila resting against a shot of Jaegermeister in a glass
>> above
>> some red bull. The tequila is the "pin". When you pull it the
>> Jaegermeister drops into the red bull and causes the "explosion".
>>
>> One level up is called a Missile. It's the same thing, but with a shot
>> of
>> Absinthe as well. You pull the Absinthe and Tequila and drink them
>> quickly
>> after each other. By the time you get to drinking the Jaegerbomb you
>> feel
>> like you've been hit by a missile.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair
>> <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> Erm... Jaeger bombs and tequila... I don't think I'm making work
>> tomorrow...
>> Not really following the emails either.
>>
>> From: Ilitirit Sama
>> [mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:07 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>
>> The gameplay demo of MGSV was awesome, but it does make the Fulton RS
>> seem
>> OP. I hope they balance it out nicely in the final version. I mean, it
>> costs 1000 GMP for a cardboard box delivery, but only 300 GMP per Fulton?
>>
>> Game looks incredibly fun though.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 9:26 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> Ah k
>>
>> All I know about how its generated is the bit you quoted from Otaku,
>> havent
>> seen any interviews myself yet.
>>
>> While that sounds less impressive it should probably count as a
>> procedurally
>> generated "cat" instead of generated "animal". So I guess they could
>> technically not be lying... :P
>>
>>
>>
>> There will be shortcuts taken. From the 1st time I saw this I was just
>> thinking is how the hell will a Indy team manage this?
>>
>> Will see someday I guess. Hope they take their time and do it properly.
>>
>> Game looks intriguing
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:09:21 +0200
>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> But that's what I'm saying. From the interview it just sounds like they
>> just have blueprints for known animals. Cats, dinosaurs, fish. How many
>> ways can you really generate a cat? Who is really going to be impressed
>> when they see a spotted panther for the 5th time, only in a different
>> colour
>> or size? In Spore, every animal has the potential to look completely
>> different. I'm not getting a sense of any of that from what they are
>> doing
>> here. They didn't mention anything about exotic animals. They mention
>> that
>> deer will exist on different planets but they will look different.
>> That's
>> not impressive. Deer exist in different countries on Earth and they look
>> different. In Spore, no two animals look the same (well, some do by
>> virtue
>> of mutation). So either they're overstating what their engine is capable
>> of, or it's not yet ready for a proper demo.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:49 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> Generating tree's and animals could use the same kind of level generation
>> algorithms I reckon.
>>
>> A "exotic" animal could have 1-8 legs. Its ass cant be too close to its
>> mouth, the legs need to be in usable positions.
>> Or tree's, cant have all the branches/leaves be too close together or
>> oddly
>> spread out... so there will be some sort of algorithm to make them look
>> "natural".
>>
>> I dont see how it is any different.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still have no real idea what you actually have to do in the game...
>> other
>> than "explore". Gather stuff? Trade? Fight? Do what and to what end?
>>
>> Hopefully they can make it fun.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:35:15 +0200
>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> If you have a base template and just tweak a few variables, it's not
>> really
>> procedural. It's just randomly assigning values to different properties.
>> eg. When you click "Random Appearance" on the character build menu in an
>> RPG. There's no real algorithm behind it. Procedural level generation
>> on
>> the other hand does require an algorithm eg. exit can't be too close to
>> the
>> start, every room must have an entrance etc etc.
>>
>> I also think don't think they're going to be able to deliver what they
>> mentioned, or at least make it fun without some big changes. They said
>> the
>> gameplay will take place in on true Universal scale. Ignoring the
>> mathematics, it honestly sounds like the most boring MMO ever. The odds
>> of
>> you running into another player is exceedingly small, and they even
>> acknowledge it! What's the point of an MMO where there's little-to-no
>> interaction with other players? It might as well be a single-player
>> game.
>> I think this is one aspect of the game they will need to rethink very
>> carefully.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> I dont take any marketing jargon seriously... dont see why this is any
>> different.
>>
>>
>> Only thing im worried about is that they have bitten off more than they
>> can
>> chew. The game sounds and looks good but im not sure if its doable
>> properly
>> with a Indy team/budget.
>>
>> If the size of it is really what they claim it to be then procedural
>> generation would be the only way to go. Nobody would create that big of
>> a
>> universe by hand.
>>
>>
>> "From the article on Kotaku it seems they just have a base template for
>> various classes of animals and plants and they tweak it to give them
>> slightly different appearances. That's very different from procedural
>> generation."
>>
>> Why is it different? Diablo 2 levels where procedurally generated...
>> they
>> were never the same. (Maybe not never but the odds are that it happened).
>> Using sets of preconstructed base items/areas/stuff.
>>
>> Its just varying degrees. If they builds stuff modular or interchangable
>> enough they could "hopefully" generate a shitload of different "Stuff".
>>
>>
>> The scope of the universe alone sounds amazing tho if they can keep it
>> from
>> beeing too samey after you have seen too much of their "constructions"
>>
>> Would be cool if they pull this off
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:57:36 +0200
>>
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> There's no way I can take any game that makes claims like that seriously.
>>
>> They start out by saying all footage is captured in real time.
>> Believable.
>>
>> Then they start talking about procedural generation. Unbelievable.
>> So, how much of it then is just marketing blurb? I really doubt they
>> generated life algorithmically (they have fish and dinosaurs). It's not
>> impossible (Spore did it), but so now I scratch that off my list as well.
>> What does that leave you with then? Procedurally generated terrain?
>> That's
>> nothing new or interesting.
>>
>> From the article on Kotaku it seems they just have a base template for
>> various classes of animals and plants and they tweak it to give them
>> slightly different appearances. That's very different from procedural
>> generation.
>>
>> Those systems Ream mentioned are indeed real. Murray and Ream showed me
>> their toolset to prove just how infinite the creatures and objects in
>> their
>> game are.
>> Ream pulls up a blue-ish menu with lines of code written across the
>> screen
>> and quickly clicks across it to pull up a very specific menu within their
>> engine. Before I know it, he's selected an option for trees and I'm
>> staring
>> at one. There's a blueprint for a fairly standard-looking tree off on the
>> right. He clicks a button that says "view variants." Dozens of new
>> trees—of
>> different shapes, sizes, and colors—pop up on the left.
>> "This is our toolset," Murray says as we scroll through the trees. "We
>> built
>> our own engine. It's super crappy, but it's kind of like Unity or
>> something
>> like that. We've written it all around procedural generation. And that's
>> kind of what we spent the first year, when it was just four of us, what
>> we
>> spent our time doing. And then the last month before the VGXs we built
>> the
>> trailer using that."
>> http://kotaku.com/how-a-seemingly-impossible-game-is-possible-1592820595
>>
>> Personally I think they're either just throwing the word around for
>> marketing hype, or their engine is nowhere near in a state where they can
>> start demoing true procedurally generated life.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> Sounds like you are taking a marketing comment a tad too serious...
>>
>> I fairly sure its just a fancy way of saying the all of the environments
>> are
>> procedurally generated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:44:25 +0200
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>> This trailer for this game pisses me off so much that I want to smash my
>> PC
>> monitor
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-v6R_T1hEs
>>
>> Every atom procedural? WTF does that even mean you morons?
>>
>> Did you codify the laws of Quantum Physics into your engine so that
>> quarks
>> had no choice BUT to assemble into stable atoms?
>>
>> And if you got that far, why even bother telling us stuff like leaves,
>> rocks
>> and planets are procedurally generated? Surely these things should have
>> just emerged from your awesome Quantum Physics engine?
>>
>> Or let's give them the benefit of the doubt and suppose they just have
>> algorithms than can arbitrarily combine electrons, protons and neutrons
>> to
>> create new atoms (much easier than even understanding Quantum Mechanics).
>> There are about 7*10^27 atoms in 70kg human body. Suppose their
>> algorithm
>> can procedurally create 100 atoms per microsecond (100 million per
>> second).
>> That means in order to create a human it would take 2.22 * 10^9 millenia
>> to
>> procedurally generate 1 human.
>>
>> -_-
>>
>>
>>
>>
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