Lol, it seems that other people also share my skepticism about their claims of procedural generation. http://www.joshandjayshow.com/nomansskybeta/ On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > But that's what I'm saying. From the interview it just sounds like they > just have blueprints for known animals. Cats, dinosaurs, fish. How many > ways can you really generate a cat? Who is really going to be impressed > when they see a spotted panther for the 5th time, only in a different > colour or size? In Spore, every animal has the potential to look > completely different. I'm not getting a sense of any of that from what > they are doing here. They didn't mention anything about exotic animals. > They mention that deer will exist on different planets but they will look > different. That's not impressive. Deer exist in different countries on > Earth and they look different. In Spore, no two animals look the same > (well, some do by virtue of mutation). So either they're overstating what > their engine is capable of, or it's not yet ready for a proper demo. > > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:49 PM, Wynand-Ben <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> Generating tree's and animals could use the same kind of level generation >> algorithms I reckon. >> >> A "exotic" animal could have 1-8 legs. Its ass cant be too close to its >> mouth, the legs need to be in usable positions. >> Or tree's, cant have all the branches/leaves be too close together or >> oddly spread out... so there will be some sort of algorithm to make them >> look "natural". >> >> I dont see how it is any different. >> >> >> >> I still have no real idea what you actually have to do in the game... >> other than "explore". Gather stuff? Trade? Fight? Do what and to what >> end? >> >> Hopefully they can make it fun. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:35:15 +0200 >> >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes! >> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> If you have a base template and just tweak a few variables, it's not >> really procedural. It's just randomly assigning values to different >> properties. eg. When you click "Random Appearance" on the character build >> menu in an RPG. There's no real algorithm behind it. Procedural level >> generation on the other hand does require an algorithm eg. exit can't be >> too close to the start, every room must have an entrance etc etc. >> >> I also think don't think they're going to be able to deliver what they >> mentioned, or at least make it fun without some big changes. They said the >> gameplay will take place in on true Universal scale. Ignoring the >> mathematics, it honestly sounds like the most boring MMO ever. The odds of >> you running into another player is exceedingly small, and they even >> acknowledge it! What's the point of an MMO where there's little-to-no >> interaction with other players? It might as well be a single-player game. >> I think this is one aspect of the game they will need to rethink very >> carefully. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Wynand-Ben <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> wrote: >> >> I dont take any marketing jargon seriously... dont see why this is any >> different. >> >> >> Only thing im worried about is that they have bitten off more than they >> can chew. The game sounds and looks good but im not sure if its doable >> properly with a Indy team/budget. >> >> If the size of it is really what they claim it to be then procedural >> generation would be the only way to go. Nobody would create that big of a >> universe by hand. >> >> >> "*From the article on Kotaku it seems they just have a base template for >> various classes of animals and plants and they tweak it to give them >> slightly different appearances. That's very different from procedural >> generation.*" >> >> Why is it different? Diablo 2 levels where procedurally generated... >> they were never the same. (Maybe not never but the odds are that it >> happened). Using sets of preconstructed base items/areas/stuff. >> >> Its just varying degrees. If they builds stuff modular or interchangable >> enough they could "hopefully" generate a shitload of different "Stuff". >> >> >> The scope of the universe alone sounds amazing tho if they can keep it >> from beeing too samey after you have seen too much of their "constructions" >> >> Would be cool if they pull this off >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:57:36 +0200 >> >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes! >> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> There's no way I can take any game that makes claims like that seriously. >> >> They start out by saying all footage is captured in real time. >> Believable. >> >> Then they start talking about procedural generation. Unbelievable. >> So, how much of it then is just marketing blurb? I really doubt they >> generated life algorithmically (they have fish and dinosaurs). It's not >> impossible (Spore did it), but so now I scratch that off my list as well. >> What does that leave you with then? Procedurally generated terrain? >> That's nothing new or interesting. >> >> From the article on Kotaku it seems they just have a base template for >> various classes of animals and plants and they tweak it to give them >> slightly different appearances. That's very different from procedural >> generation. >> >> Those systems Ream mentioned are indeed real. Murray and Ream showed me >> their toolset to prove just how infinite the creatures and objects in their >> game are. >> Ream pulls up a blue-ish menu with lines of code written across the >> screen and quickly clicks across it to pull up a very specific menu within >> their engine. Before I know it, he's selected an option for trees and I'm >> staring at one. There's a blueprint for a fairly standard-looking tree off >> on the right. He clicks a button that says "view variants." Dozens of new >> trees—of different shapes, sizes, and colors—pop up on the left. >> "This is our toolset," Murray says as we scroll through the trees. "We >> built our own engine. It's super crappy, but it's kind of like Unity or >> something like that. We've written it all around procedural generation. And >> that's kind of what we spent the first year, when it was just four of us, >> what we spent our time doing. And then the last month before the VGXs we >> built the trailer using that." >> >> http://kotaku.com/how-a-seemingly-impossible-game-is-possible-1592820595 >> >> Personally I think they're either just throwing the word around for >> marketing hype, or their engine is nowhere near in a state where they can >> start demoing true procedurally generated life. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Wynand-Ben <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> wrote: >> >> Sounds like you are taking a marketing comment a tad too serious... >> >> I fairly sure its just a fancy way of saying the all of the environments >> are procedurally generated. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:44:25 +0200 >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes! >> From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> >> This trailer for this game pisses me off so much that I want to smash my >> PC monitor >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-v6R_T1hEs >> >> Every atom procedural? WTF does that even mean you morons? >> >> Did you codify the laws of Quantum Physics into your engine so that >> quarks had no choice BUT to assemble into stable atoms? >> >> And if you got that far, why even bother telling us stuff like leaves, >> rocks and planets are procedurally generated? Surely these things should >> have just emerged from your awesome Quantum Physics engine? >> >> Or let's give them the benefit of the doubt and suppose they just have >> algorithms than can arbitrarily combine electrons, protons and neutrons to >> create new atoms (much easier than even understanding Quantum Mechanics). >> There are about 7*10^27 atoms in 70kg human body. Suppose their algorithm >> can procedurally create 100 atoms per microsecond (100 million per >> second). That means in order to create a human it would take 2.22 * 10^9 >> millenia to procedurally generate 1 human. >> >> -_- >> >> >> >> >