Re: USF4 changes!
- From: Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:49:38 +0200
I can just imagine if we needed a meter for hoping/super hop/super
jumping rolling and running in KOF it would be so slow.
One of the few games I know where zoning is not an issue against
non-zoning characters.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair
<alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Don't you need meter for some of the movement stuff in KOF? I mean the rolls?
> Who knows how this is going to work? I presume the backdashing will be enough
> to clear the space and either give you the opportunity to whiff punish or set
> up some zoning stuff.
> This is MK... they've never had proper backdashes before. They're now adding
> new movement and people are still complaining that this will reduce their
> ability to play the game? How?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Manase Zote
> Sent: 12 June 2014 4:22 PM
> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>
> In other games we can backlash until the cows come home and there is no meter
> for that and the game is still fair nothing broken about the mechanic. lol In
> street fighter if you backdash non stop you corner yourself and that alone is
> bad so I still don't understand why you would need meter in helping with your
> suicide(cornering yourself).
> My suggestion is just balance the back dash so that it's not OP(like in SF,
> KOF and other 2D fighters).
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> The "agility bar" backdash covers much more distance than that i think.
>> Also, if we can just backdash nonstop and avoid normals and
>> strings...rushdown/pressure characters will have problem, because
>> they'll just backdash and avoid everything all the time.
>>
>> Unless they make backdashing more technical like Tekken. I think the
>> agility bar is fair. It doesn't limit anything at all. It helps with
>> tough situation.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> MK9 didn't have a bar for back dashing and it was just fine so what
>>> was wrong with that?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > The movement and pace of the game seems to be the same as mk9
>>> > (which i think is ok but not the best). The agility bar enhances
>>> > that a lot more for
>>> > 1-2
>>> > bars. So i don't mind it. It doesn't limit the movement of game at all.
>>> > Eg.
>>> > Tekken movement but you can do a "super" backdash for 1 agility bar
>>> > (that fills up on it's own pretty nicely) to get out of Nina's df+1
>>> > ss+1 pressure...or spend 2 agility bars to avoid nina's df+1 ss+1
>>> > pressure by using stage interactables and jump away. Not sure if
>>> > you're invincible or not during the jump...What was injustice like?
>>> >
>>> > So the basic movements is there. No limitation at all. Agility bar
>>> > helps but doesn't defy the whole movement gameplay.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> At this point no one knows how all of the above system mechanics
>>> >> are going to turn out.
>>> >> Limiting movement to a bar is a crime in any fighting game because
>>> >> you need movement for everything you do in a fighting game.
>>> >> It also affects the pacing of the overall match. So for me
>>> >> limiting movement to a bar is a gimmick and will only give players
>>> >> more problems rather than assisting them in a match.
>>> >> I still don't see how styles can solve bad match ups, zoner will
>>> >> always have an advantage from range, rushdown owns up-close...
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> > There's an agility bar. New bar. Nothing to do with EX bar. It
>>> >> > fills up pretty quickly. There's 2 bar. You use 1 to perform run
>>> >> > or a backdash (spaces out quite a bit). I think this is fair. It
>>> >> > fills up fast enough to use it every now and then. But not
>>> >> > enough to just spam nonstop. You use
>>> >> > 2 to
>>> >> > use stage interactables. So it's not a stage interactablefest
>>> >> > like Injustice. You have to decide if it'll be worth it to use
>>> >> > interactables or to just dash up to continue pressure / dash
>>> >> > away to keep zoning.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > As for variation. It's like saying Catwomen decides to do rushdown.
>>> >> > And
>>> >> > Grundy decides to do "zoning" with his zombie ground grab thingy
>>> >> > (meaning he'll not have his armor chainthrows etc.) Catwomen
>>> >> > will just run up to grundy with her claw slash and ignore most
>>> >> > of Grundy's zoning. I'm hoping the character variation is NOT
>>> >> > going to be rock/paper/scissors. Hope it helps you with really
>>> >> > bad match up, but still at the end of the day...it's what you
>>> >> > do. Because in MK9, i can just spam Kabal's instant air fireball
>>> >> > like a noob and know some combos and it'll already be hard to
>>> >> > win against kabal without having to learn his advance nomad dash
>>> >> > cancels if you play someone who has trouble with zoning.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > so instead of choosing a variation and giving you instant win
>>> >> > (because you only keep a few moveset between variations). i'm
>>> >> > hoping variation helps with really bad match ups like 9-1 or 8-2
>>> >> > to something like 6-4 or 5-5 and what not. because fighting
>>> >> > games should be about what you can do as a player.
>>> >> > just because i know stupid spamming basic kabal shouldn't give
>>> >> > me instant advantage over someone who's really good with sheeva,
>>> >> > scorpion or sub zero (don't know which characters have issue
>>> >> > with zoning in mk9...)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> SAP just told me that you need meter to run?
>>> >> >> Isn't that supposed to be stone age mechanics(having a meter
>>> >> >> for running)?
>>> >> >> Who said running was broken?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> *Sigh*
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Back in MK3/UMK3/MK4 that meter also managed your combos so no
>>> >> >> meter no chain combos no running around :(
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Wynand-Ben
>>> >> >> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Im also not seeing how it can help bad matchups.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Picking a different version of the same character or a
>>> >> >> > different character all together between matches would be
>>> >> >> > just like it was now.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Counterpicking etc.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:11:20 +0200
>>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>> >> >> >> From: bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> How do you get around the rock/paper/scissors character
>>> >> >> >> selection?
>>> >> >> >> Player 1 picks his zoning scorpion while player 2 goes for
>>> >> >> >> rush down version of scorpion, it will still be a bad match
>>> >> >> >> up for one of the guys regardless.
>>> >> >> >> Tools of the characters, match-up exp and lastly the skill
>>> >> >> >> level and execution will be the deciding factor.
>>> >> >> >> To me the understanding of a balance fighting is to make
>>> >> >> >> every character the same...
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > Hmmm a good fighting game shouldn't be all about bad match
>>> >> >> >> > up and lack of knowledge...it should still be fun and
>>> >> >> >> > challenging in another level when your opponent knows what
>>> >> >> >> > your character can do.
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Yes there are bad match ups and character knowledge in
>>> >> >> >> > fighting games.
>>> >> >> >> > but
>>> >> >> >> > it shouldn't be in a state of "i know what you're doing,
>>> >> >> >> > but i can't retaliate at all"
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Eg. Tekken. Capos. If my opponent knows how to deal with
>>> >> >> >> > relax stance and such. I'll play in another mode :) There
>>> >> >> >> > is no "instant" win in tekken.
>>> >> >> >> > you
>>> >> >> >> > can play bears and still win against top tier character
>>> >> >> >> > because you the player are just better. shouldn't be
>>> >> >> >> > bringing a plastic ruler to a gun fight situation. should
>>> >> >> >> > be more or less "experienced fighter with a slightly blunt
>>> >> >> >> > knife" vs "an okay-ish fighter with a sharp knife".
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Manase Zote
>>> >> >> >> > <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> This method of balancing looks like a throw of dice to me.
>>> >> >> >> >> It can go either way, you potentially have a scenario
>>> >> >> >> >> where you can lose a match based on lack of character
>>> >> >> >> >> knowledge rather than skill.
>>> >> >> >> >> If the game has like 30 characters for an example
>>> >> >> >> >> multiply that by 3 so on average you need to be aware of
>>> >> >> >> >> what all 90 variations are capable of?
>>> >> >> >> >> Let's wait and see what the move list looks like and how
>>> >> >> >> >> many moves will change between 3 variations of a
>>> >> >> >> >> character.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Di Lhong
>>> >> >> >> >> <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> > 11.59? XD
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Hopefully the character variation will be some answer
>>> >> >> >> >> > to really bad match up. Not sure how they'll balance it
>>> >> >> >> >> > tho. It'll be weird to just be a total counter to
>>> >> >> >> >> > another characters variation completely. If that's the
>>> >> >> >> >> > case, it'll be more rock paper scissors situation than
>>> >> >> >> >> > a fighting game lolz hopefully the variations will make
>>> >> >> >> >> > match ups like 9-1 to 6-4 or what not. So there'll
>>> >> >> >> >> > still be unfavourable match ups but not a complete lose
>>> >> >> >> >> > like MK9...eg. Kabal vs Sheeva...
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Williams
>>> >> >> >> >> > <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> I think 12:00 is a safer option Rich :)
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:24 PM,
>>> >> >> >> >> >> <greattekkenmaster@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Is 11:30 fine also?? I wanna get game time as much as
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> I can Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> email find you!
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> ________________________________
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Sender: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:15:48 +0200
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> To: <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> ReplyTo: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Heya peeps, we'll be starting the Sat sessions at
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> 12pm to maximise game time.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who is keen on starting a little earlier can
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> join us at that time.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> If you aren't able to make 12pm, that's fine as well.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>>> >> >> >> >> >>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> I think she feeling a bit lazy today. She was like
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> "Can I speak to the main owner of the computer" and
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> I was like "he's at work"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> and
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> she
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> was
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> like
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> "k thanx bye"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Nicholas
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Robertson-Muir <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> I love those.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> Start talking linux, usually goes well.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "move to your start bar"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have one"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "what version of Windows are you using"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "I'm not using Windows"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "Open up Internet Explorer"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have that either"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "open your web browser"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "mkay"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "install this app"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "using my regular tar.z loader or the synaptic
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> package manage?"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "huh?"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> good times.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> lol, got a call from an Indian sounding lady
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> calling from "Windows Technical Department"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> How about no.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Ryan Williams
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> "Can I just buy a complete game please?"
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Not going to happen in this day and age. Those
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> days are over.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Nicholas
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Robertson-Muir <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> LOL
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't know which I hate more about fighting games.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> The
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> update
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> approach like Street Fighter, or the supposedly
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> new game like Blazblue and Persona.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> It makes me not want to buy the games anymore,
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> because there will be an Update later.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Can I just buy a complete game please?
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Persona now?
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Blazblue now?
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I'm just ranting because I see there's a new
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> character coming out for P4A ...and I was
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> planning to get the new Blazblue (english
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> version)...
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> In all honesty, the Capcom approach makes more
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> sense to me, as much as I dislike it.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Wynand-Ben
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> A new dark age starting off with a new Guilty
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Gear I can definitely live with :D
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:59:23 +0200
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > From: gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > I'm all for the next FG dark age.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Wreal wrap.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > On 12/06/2014, Ilitirit Sama
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > Mortal Kombat Honest Trailer:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCiVYKmCveY
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > =============================================
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > ============================ You are
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>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> =========================================================
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