Re: USF4 changes!

  • From: Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:37:00 +0200

But not for a regular backdash and running...

On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir
<nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You can use bar for teleport stuff in kof. Most of it is last dich when I
> use it.
>
> On 12 Jun 2014 16:28, "Donaldson, Alasdair" <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>>
>> Don't you need meter for some of the movement stuff in KOF? I mean the
>> rolls?
>> Who knows how this is going to work? I presume the backdashing will be
>> enough to clear the space and either give you the opportunity to whiff
>> punish or set up some zoning stuff.
>> This is MK... they've never had proper backdashes before. They're now
>> adding new movement and people are still complaining that this will reduce
>> their ability to play the game? How?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Manase Zote
>> Sent: 12 June 2014 4:22 PM
>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>>
>> In other games we can backlash until the cows come home and there is no
>> meter for that and the game is still fair nothing broken about the mechanic.
>> lol In street fighter if you backdash non stop you corner yourself and that
>> alone is bad so I still don't understand why you would need meter in helping
>> with your suicide(cornering yourself).
>> My suggestion is just balance the back dash so that it's not OP(like in
>> SF, KOF and other 2D fighters).
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > The "agility bar" backdash covers much more distance than that i think.
>> > Also, if we can just backdash nonstop and avoid normals and
>> > strings...rushdown/pressure characters will have problem, because
>> > they'll just backdash and avoid everything all the time.
>> >
>> > Unless they make backdashing more technical like Tekken. I think the
>> > agility bar is fair. It doesn't limit anything at all. It helps with
>> > tough situation.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> MK9 didn't have a bar for back dashing and it was just fine so what
>> >> was wrong with that?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> > The movement and pace of the game seems to be the same as mk9
>> >> > (which i think is ok but not the best). The agility bar enhances
>> >> > that a lot more for
>> >> > 1-2
>> >> > bars. So i don't mind it. It doesn't limit the movement of game at
>> >> > all.
>> >> > Eg.
>> >> > Tekken movement but you can do a "super" backdash for 1 agility bar
>> >> > (that fills up on it's own pretty nicely) to get out of Nina's df+1
>> >> > ss+1 pressure...or spend 2 agility bars to avoid nina's df+1 ss+1
>> >> > pressure by using stage interactables and jump away. Not sure if
>> >> > you're invincible or not during the jump...What was injustice like?
>> >> >
>> >> > So the basic movements is there. No limitation at all. Agility bar
>> >> > helps but doesn't defy the whole movement gameplay.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At this point no one knows how all of the above system mechanics
>> >> >> are going to turn out.
>> >> >> Limiting movement to a bar is a crime in any fighting game because
>> >> >> you need movement for everything you do in a fighting game.
>> >> >> It also affects the pacing of the overall match.  So for me
>> >> >> limiting movement to a bar is a gimmick and will only give players
>> >> >> more problems rather than assisting them in a match.
>> >> >> I still don't see how styles can solve bad match ups, zoner will
>> >> >> always have an advantage from range, rushdown owns up-close...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> > There's an agility bar. New bar. Nothing to do with EX bar. It
>> >> >> > fills up pretty quickly. There's 2 bar. You use 1 to perform run
>> >> >> > or a backdash (spaces out quite a bit). I think this is fair. It
>> >> >> > fills up fast enough to use it every now and then. But not
>> >> >> > enough to just spam nonstop. You use
>> >> >> > 2 to
>> >> >> > use stage interactables. So it's not a stage interactablefest
>> >> >> > like Injustice. You have to decide if it'll be worth it to use
>> >> >> > interactables or to just dash up to continue pressure / dash
>> >> >> > away to keep zoning.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As for variation. It's like saying Catwomen decides to do
>> >> >> > rushdown.
>> >> >> > And
>> >> >> > Grundy decides to do "zoning" with his zombie ground grab thingy
>> >> >> > (meaning he'll not have his armor chainthrows etc.) Catwomen
>> >> >> > will just run up to grundy with her claw slash and ignore most
>> >> >> > of Grundy's zoning. I'm hoping the character variation is NOT
>> >> >> > going to be rock/paper/scissors. Hope it helps you with really
>> >> >> > bad match up, but still at the end of the day...it's what you
>> >> >> > do. Because in MK9, i can just spam Kabal's instant air fireball
>> >> >> > like a noob and know some combos and it'll already be hard to
>> >> >> > win against kabal without having to learn his advance nomad dash
>> >> >> > cancels if you play someone who has trouble with zoning.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > so instead of choosing a variation and giving you instant win
>> >> >> > (because you only keep a few moveset between variations). i'm
>> >> >> > hoping variation helps with really bad match ups like 9-1 or 8-2
>> >> >> > to something like 6-4 or 5-5 and what not. because fighting
>> >> >> > games should be about what you can do as a player.
>> >> >> > just because i know stupid spamming basic kabal shouldn't give
>> >> >> > me instant advantage over someone who's really good with sheeva,
>> >> >> > scorpion or sub zero (don't know which characters have issue
>> >> >> > with zoning in mk9...)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> SAP just told me that you need meter to run?
>> >> >> >> Isn't that supposed to be stone age mechanics(having a meter
>> >> >> >> for running)?
>> >> >> >> Who said running was broken?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> *Sigh*
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Back in MK3/UMK3/MK4 that meter also managed your combos so no
>> >> >> >> meter no chain combos no running around :(
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> >> >> >> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Im also not seeing how it can help bad matchups.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Picking a different version of the same character or a
>> >> >> >> > different character all together between matches would be
>> >> >> >> > just like it was now.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Counterpicking etc.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:11:20 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> >> From: bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> How do you get around the rock/paper/scissors character
>> >> >> >> >> selection?
>> >> >> >> >> Player 1 picks his zoning scorpion while player 2 goes for
>> >> >> >> >> rush down version of scorpion, it will still be a bad match
>> >> >> >> >> up for one of the guys regardless.
>> >> >> >> >> Tools of the characters, match-up exp and lastly the skill
>> >> >> >> >> level and execution will be the deciding factor.
>> >> >> >> >> To me the understanding of a balance fighting is to make
>> >> >> >> >> every character the same...
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > Hmmm a good fighting game shouldn't be all about bad match
>> >> >> >> >> > up and lack of knowledge...it should still be fun and
>> >> >> >> >> > challenging in another level when your opponent knows what
>> >> >> >> >> > your character can do.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Yes there are bad match ups and character knowledge in
>> >> >> >> >> > fighting games.
>> >> >> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> >> > it shouldn't be in a state of "i know what you're doing,
>> >> >> >> >> > but i can't retaliate at all"
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Eg. Tekken. Capos. If my opponent knows how to deal with
>> >> >> >> >> > relax stance and such. I'll play in another mode :) There
>> >> >> >> >> > is no "instant" win in tekken.
>> >> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> >> > can play bears and still win against top tier character
>> >> >> >> >> > because you the player are just better. shouldn't be
>> >> >> >> >> > bringing a plastic ruler to a gun fight situation. should
>> >> >> >> >> > be more or less "experienced fighter with a slightly blunt
>> >> >> >> >> > knife" vs "an okay-ish fighter with a sharp knife".
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Manase Zote
>> >> >> >> >> > <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> This method of balancing looks like a throw of dice to me.
>> >> >> >> >> >> It can go either way, you potentially have a scenario
>> >> >> >> >> >> where you can lose a match based on lack of character
>> >> >> >> >> >> knowledge rather than skill.
>> >> >> >> >> >> If the game has like 30 characters for an example
>> >> >> >> >> >> multiply that by 3 so on average you need to be aware of
>> >> >> >> >> >> what all 90 variations are capable of?
>> >> >> >> >> >> Let's wait and see what the move list looks like and how
>> >> >> >> >> >> many moves will change between 3 variations of a
>> >> >> >> >> >> character.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Di Lhong
>> >> >> >> >> >> <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > 11.59? XD
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Hopefully the character variation will be some answer
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to really bad match up. Not sure how they'll balance it
>> >> >> >> >> >> > tho. It'll be weird to just be a total counter to
>> >> >> >> >> >> > another characters variation completely. If that's the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > case, it'll be more rock paper scissors situation than
>> >> >> >> >> >> > a fighting game lolz hopefully the variations will make
>> >> >> >> >> >> > match ups like 9-1 to 6-4 or what not. So there'll
>> >> >> >> >> >> > still be unfavourable match ups but not a complete lose
>> >> >> >> >> >> > like MK9...eg. Kabal vs Sheeva...
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Williams
>> >> >> >> >> >> > <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> I think 12:00 is a safer option Rich :)
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:24 PM,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <greattekkenmaster@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Is 11:30 fine also?? I wanna get game time as much as
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> I can Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> email find you!
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> ________________________________
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Sender: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:15:48 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> To: <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> ReplyTo: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Heya peeps, we'll be starting the Sat sessions at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 12pm to maximise game time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who is keen on starting a little earlier can
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> join us at that time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> If you aren't able to make 12pm, that's fine as well.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> I think she feeling a bit lazy today. She was like
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> "Can I speak to the main owner of the computer" and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> I was like "he's at work"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> she
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> was
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> like
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> "k thanx bye"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Nicholas
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Robertson-Muir <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> I love those.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> Start talking linux, usually goes well.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "move to your start bar"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have one"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "what version of Windows are you using"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "I'm not using Windows"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "Open up Internet Explorer"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have that either"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "open your web browser"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "mkay"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "install this app"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "using my regular tar.z loader or the synaptic
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> package manage?"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "huh?"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> good times.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> lol, got a call from an Indian sounding lady
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> calling from "Windows Technical Department"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> How about no.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Ryan Williams
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> "Can I just buy a complete game please?"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Not going to happen in this day and age. Those
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> days are over.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Nicholas
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Robertson-Muir <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> LOL
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't know which I hate more about fighting
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> games.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> The
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> update
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> approach like Street Fighter, or the supposedly
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> new game like Blazblue and Persona.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> It makes me not want to buy the games anymore,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> because there will be an Update later.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Can I just buy a complete game please?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Persona now?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Blazblue now?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I'm just ranting because I see there's a new
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> character coming out for P4A ...and I was
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> planning to get the new Blazblue (english
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> version)...
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> In all honesty, the Capcom approach makes more
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> sense to me, as much as I dislike it.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> A new dark age starting off with a new Guilty
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Gear I can definitely live with :D
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:59:23 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > From: gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > I'm all for the next FG dark age.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Wreal wrap.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > On 12/06/2014, Ilitirit Sama
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > Mortal Kombat Honest Trailer:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCiVYKmCveY
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > =============================================
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > ============================ You are
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>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> =========================================================
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