Re: USF4 changes!
- From: Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:18:33 +0200
It shouldn't be a problem in the conventional 2D sense Di.
Dashing mechanics have been in existence for some time now, but it's not
like people haven't found ways to deal with excessive backdashing, etc. If
anything, in a 2D setting, if a character just keeps backdashing, they'll
eventually find themselves in the corner which is exactly where a
rushdown/pressure character wants them, so it's generally not a good idea
to do so. There's not really a need for an option like this IMO.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The "agility bar" backdash covers much more distance than that i think.
> Also, if we can just backdash nonstop and avoid normals and
> strings...rushdown/pressure characters will have problem, because they'll
> just backdash and avoid everything all the time.
>
> Unless they make backdashing more technical like Tekken. I think the
> agility bar is fair. It doesn't limit anything at all. It helps with tough
> situation.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> MK9 didn't have a bar for back dashing and it was just fine so what
>> was wrong with that?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > The movement and pace of the game seems to be the same as mk9 (which i
>> think
>> > is ok but not the best). The agility bar enhances that a lot more for
>> 1-2
>> > bars. So i don't mind it. It doesn't limit the movement of game at all.
>> Eg.
>> > Tekken movement but you can do a "super" backdash for 1 agility bar
>> (that
>> > fills up on it's own pretty nicely) to get out of Nina's df+1 ss+1
>> > pressure...or spend 2 agility bars to avoid nina's df+1 ss+1 pressure by
>> > using stage interactables and jump away. Not sure if you're invincible
>> or
>> > not during the jump...What was injustice like?
>> >
>> > So the basic movements is there. No limitation at all. Agility bar
>> helps but
>> > doesn't defy the whole movement gameplay.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> At this point no one knows how all of the above system mechanics are
>> >> going to turn out.
>> >> Limiting movement to a bar is a crime in any fighting game because you
>> >> need movement for everything you do in a fighting game.
>> >> It also affects the pacing of the overall match. So for me limiting
>> >> movement to a bar is a gimmick and will only give players more
>> >> problems rather than assisting them in a match.
>> >> I still don't see how styles can solve bad match ups, zoner will
>> >> always have an advantage from range, rushdown owns up-close...
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> > There's an agility bar. New bar. Nothing to do with EX bar. It fills
>> up
>> >> > pretty quickly. There's 2 bar. You use 1 to perform run or a backdash
>> >> > (spaces out quite a bit). I think this is fair. It fills up fast
>> enough
>> >> > to
>> >> > use it every now and then. But not enough to just spam nonstop. You
>> use
>> >> > 2 to
>> >> > use stage interactables. So it's not a stage interactablefest like
>> >> > Injustice. You have to decide if it'll be worth it to use
>> interactables
>> >> > or
>> >> > to just dash up to continue pressure / dash away to keep zoning.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for variation. It's like saying Catwomen decides to do rushdown.
>> And
>> >> > Grundy decides to do "zoning" with his zombie ground grab thingy
>> >> > (meaning
>> >> > he'll not have his armor chainthrows etc.) Catwomen will just run up
>> to
>> >> > grundy with her claw slash and ignore most of Grundy's zoning. I'm
>> >> > hoping
>> >> > the character variation is NOT going to be rock/paper/scissors. Hope
>> it
>> >> > helps you with really bad match up, but still at the end of the
>> >> > day...it's
>> >> > what you do. Because in MK9, i can just spam Kabal's instant air
>> >> > fireball
>> >> > like a noob and know some combos and it'll already be hard to win
>> >> > against
>> >> > kabal without having to learn his advance nomad dash cancels if you
>> play
>> >> > someone who has trouble with zoning.
>> >> >
>> >> > so instead of choosing a variation and giving you instant win
>> (because
>> >> > you
>> >> > only keep a few moveset between variations). i'm hoping variation
>> helps
>> >> > with
>> >> > really bad match ups like 9-1 or 8-2 to something like 6-4 or 5-5 and
>> >> > what
>> >> > not. because fighting games should be about what you can do as a
>> player.
>> >> > just because i know stupid spamming basic kabal shouldn't give me
>> >> > instant
>> >> > advantage over someone who's really good with sheeva, scorpion or sub
>> >> > zero
>> >> > (don't know which characters have issue with zoning in mk9...)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SAP just told me that you need meter to run?
>> >> >> Isn't that supposed to be stone age mechanics(having a meter for
>> >> >> running)?
>> >> >> Who said running was broken?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *Sigh*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Back in MK3/UMK3/MK4 that meter also managed your combos so no meter
>> >> >> no chain combos no running around :(
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Wynand-Ben <
>> paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Im also not seeing how it can help bad matchups.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Picking a different version of the same character or a different
>> >> >> > character
>> >> >> > all together between matches would be just like it was now.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Counterpicking etc.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:11:20 +0200
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> From: bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> How do you get around the rock/paper/scissors character
>> selection?
>> >> >> >> Player 1 picks his zoning scorpion while player 2 goes for rush
>> down
>> >> >> >> version of scorpion, it will still be a bad match up for one of
>> the
>> >> >> >> guys regardless.
>> >> >> >> Tools of the characters, match-up exp and lastly the skill level
>> and
>> >> >> >> execution will be the deciding factor.
>> >> >> >> To me the understanding of a balance fighting is to make every
>> >> >> >> character the same...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Hmmm a good fighting game shouldn't be all about bad match up
>> and
>> >> >> >> > lack
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > knowledge...it should still be fun and challenging in another
>> >> >> >> > level
>> >> >> >> > when
>> >> >> >> > your opponent knows what your character can do.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Yes there are bad match ups and character knowledge in fighting
>> >> >> >> > games.
>> >> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> > it shouldn't be in a state of "i know what you're doing, but i
>> >> >> >> > can't
>> >> >> >> > retaliate at all"
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Eg. Tekken. Capos. If my opponent knows how to deal with relax
>> >> >> >> > stance
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > such. I'll play in another mode :) There is no "instant" win in
>> >> >> >> > tekken.
>> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> > can play bears and still win against top tier character because
>> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > player are just better. shouldn't be bringing a plastic ruler
>> to a
>> >> >> >> > gun
>> >> >> >> > fight
>> >> >> >> > situation. should be more or less "experienced fighter with a
>> >> >> >> > slightly
>> >> >> >> > blunt
>> >> >> >> > knife" vs "an okay-ish fighter with a sharp knife".
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Manase Zote <
>> bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This method of balancing looks like a throw of dice to me.
>> >> >> >> >> It can go either way, you potentially have a scenario where
>> you
>> >> >> >> >> can
>> >> >> >> >> lose a match based on lack of character knowledge rather than
>> >> >> >> >> skill.
>> >> >> >> >> If the game has like 30 characters for an example multiply
>> that
>> >> >> >> >> by 3
>> >> >> >> >> so on average you need to be aware of what all 90 variations
>> are
>> >> >> >> >> capable of?
>> >> >> >> >> Let's wait and see what the move list looks like and how many
>> >> >> >> >> moves
>> >> >> >> >> will change between 3 variations of a character.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > 11.59? XD
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Hopefully the character variation will be some answer to
>> really
>> >> >> >> >> > bad
>> >> >> >> >> > match
>> >> >> >> >> > up. Not sure how they'll balance it tho. It'll be weird to
>> just
>> >> >> >> >> > be
>> >> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> > total
>> >> >> >> >> > counter to another characters variation completely. If
>> that's
>> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> > case,
>> >> >> >> >> > it'll be more rock paper scissors situation than a fighting
>> >> >> >> >> > game
>> >> >> >> >> > lolz
>> >> >> >> >> > hopefully the variations will make match ups like 9-1 to
>> 6-4 or
>> >> >> >> >> > what
>> >> >> >> >> > not. So
>> >> >> >> >> > there'll still be unfavourable match ups but not a complete
>> >> >> >> >> > lose
>> >> >> >> >> > like
>> >> >> >> >> > MK9...eg. Kabal vs Sheeva...
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Williams
>> >> >> >> >> > <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> I think 12:00 is a safer option Rich :)
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:24 PM, <
>> greattekkenmaster@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Is 11:30 fine also?? I wanna get game time as much as I
>> can
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find
>> >> >> >> >> >>> you!
>> >> >> >> >> >>> ________________________________
>> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Sender: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:15:48 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> >>> To: <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> ReplyTo: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Heya peeps, we'll be starting the Sat sessions at 12pm to
>> >> >> >> >> >>> maximise
>> >> >> >> >> >>> game
>> >> >> >> >> >>> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone who is keen on starting a little earlier can join
>> us
>> >> >> >> >> >>> at
>> >> >> >> >> >>> that
>> >> >> >> >> >>> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >>> If you aren't able to make 12pm, that's fine as well.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>> >> >> >> >> >>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> I think she feeling a bit lazy today. She was like "Can I
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> speak
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> to
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> main owner of the computer" and I was like "he's at work"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> she
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> was
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> like
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> "k thanx bye"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> I love those.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> Start talking linux, usually goes well.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "move to your start bar"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have one"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "what version of Windows are you using"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "I'm not using Windows"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "Open up Internet Explorer"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "don't have that either"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "open your web browser"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "mkay"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "install this app"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "using my regular tar.z loader or the synaptic package
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> manage?"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "huh?"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> good times.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Ashraf Barendse
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> lol, got a call from an Indian sounding lady calling
>> from
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> "Windows
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> Technical Department"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> How about no.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Ryan Williams
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> "Can I just buy a complete game please?"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Not going to happen in this day and age. Those days
>> are
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> over.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Nicholas
>> Robertson-Muir
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> LOL
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't know which I hate more about fighting games.
>> The
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> update
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> approach like Street Fighter, or the supposedly new
>> game
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> like
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Blazblue and
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Persona.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> It makes me not want to buy the games anymore,
>> because
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> there
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> will
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> be
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> an Update later.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Can I just buy a complete game please?
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Persona now?
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Do I need to buy another Blazblue now?
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I'm just ranting because I see there's a new
>> character
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> coming
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> out
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> for P4A
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> ...and I was planning to get the new Blazblue
>> (english
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> version)...
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> In all honesty, the Capcom approach makes more sense
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> me,
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> as
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> much
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> as I dislike it.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> A new dark age starting off with a new Guilty Gear I
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> can
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> definitely
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> live with :D
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:59:23 +0200
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > From: gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > I'm all for the next FG dark age.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Wreal wrap.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > On 12/06/2014, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > Mortal Kombat Honest Trailer:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCiVYKmCveY
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> =========================================================================
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > Community
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > mailing list.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> > //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >> >> >> >> You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game Community
>> >> >> >> >> mailing
>> >> >> >> >> list.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >> >> >> You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game Community
>> mailing
>> >> >> >> list.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >> >> You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game Community mailing
>> >> >> list.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >> You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game Community mailing
>> list.
>> >>
>> >> //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>> >
>> >
>> =========================================================================
>> You are subscribed to the Cape Town Fighting Game Community mailing list.
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/list/cpt-fgc
>>
>
>
Other related posts:
