Re: Re:

  • From: lindsey kiviets <lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 06:59:50 +0000

sap pls,

don't upset me!!!!

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of
Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 27 November 2015 06:58 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re:

Tsek, what if something came up and l couldn't attend? :P

On 27 Nov 2015 08:55, "lindsey kiviets"
<lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

sap pls, don't be telling me information that I already know, tsek

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: 27 November 2015 06:54 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re:

I'll be there!

On 27 Nov 2015 08:52, "lindsey kiviets"
<lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Morning peeps,

Ima be at sessin tomorrow. Can I get headcount on whose coming? so I know what
to bring ps3 or pc.

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: 25 November 2015 08:19 PM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re:

I understand they're trying to attract more players. But does changing movement
make people want to play more? only thing that this changed is the skill gap
between top players and mid level players. Which are the 2 group that will play
the game anyways since they like the franchise.

However, T7 have did brought back older veterans from the dead like Soyongdori,
Crazydongpal, etc. While they were MIA in TTT2. TTT2 was too much of a mess
when it comes to tag combos, tag assault and set ups. It's a combo fest like
you said. But on solo mode, it's pretty decent.

T7 have those odd T5 mini combos along with "bound" combos too. Like Lei's uf4
f~2 f~2 f~2 ff34 nonsense lolz. So far the game is still in beta. I can see
some of the characters (especially the recycled ones like LUCKY CHLOE! and
Gigas) needs work. They added moves from other characters which are completely
useless in every way. They even said they added those move so people have
familiarity to older characters -_- 0 function. But Capo-lite is so fun to
play. The struggle makes it fun i guess lolz.

Overall, the direction T7 is going is pretty good. But just need to release the
rest of the cast and polish some of the "new" characters...they really feel
unfinished somehow.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Ryan Williams
<ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

I second pretty much everything you mentioned. My question is, what is the
solution when you're in the minority and have little to no influence?
Dissatisfaction and frustration won't accomplish much unless there's universal
consensus, which - let's face it - is unlikely.

On 25 Nov 2015 15:51, "Ilitirit Sama"
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

I agree that a distinction should be made between adaptation and tolerance in
this regard, but if a game development company already has a vision and
direction in mind for a particular game that they are not prepared to deviate
from unless it is absolutely necessary, you're ultimately faced with two
choices: play the game or don't.

True, and in SFV's case they deviated a lot from their original hype line of
high damage/stun. Damage is on par with SFIV now, and even less in some cases.

But sometimes you can also be more-or-less aligned with the vision, but not
with the strategy to achieve the goals, or even the implementation of the

Simplified example:
Vision - Ono and Harada say they want more people to play fighting games
Strategy - They're going to realise this vision by making the game more
accessible to newcomers *and* shorten the gap between beginners and veterans
Implementation - Lower execution barriers, and weaken tactics beginners find
hard to deal with (oki, strong normals, spacing, zoning etc)

I completely agree with the vision. I want more people to play FGs.

I agree that games could be made more accessible. I don't agree in shortening
the gap between beginners and veterans.

I don't have a problem with lowering execution barriers if it doesn't have a
negative impact on gameplay (see Rising Thunder - 1 button specials make
cross-ups useless unless you attack during cooldown), and I don't agree that
fundamental, tried-and-tested battle strategies should be weakened to
accommodate new players. I mean, this is one of the reasons I play Fighting
Games after all.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Ryan Williams
<ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

I agree that a distinction should be made between adaptation and tolerance in
this regard, but if a game development company already has a vision and
direction in mind for a particular game that they are not prepared to deviate
from unless it is absolutely necessary, you're ultimately faced with two
choices: play the game or don't.

There are a number of things in a wide variety of fighting games that l
absolutely despise. Do l possess the necessary influence as an avid,
experienced and long time fighting game player to force the developer's hand so
that my specific criteria are met? Not really. If that truly was the case, many
modern fighting games would most likely have turned out very differently. The
reality of the matter is that the arcade scene and mentality will not return.
Those days are long gone and we have to look to the future, even if that future
contains things that we can't make sense of; at least, not initially.

Returning to the subject of adaptation versus tolerance, if the latter is one's
immediate reaction to a particular game, it's safe to say that you'd know which
decision to make. I personally wouldn't waste my time on a game that l know l'd
only be able to tolerate.

On 25 Nov 2015 15:03, "Ilitirit Sama"
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I think the biggest factor - which also happens to be what people hate - is
the ability to adapt and to accept change.

I agree for the most part, but I think that sometimes adaptation gets conflated
with tolerance. For example, let's say there's a game that forces a neutral
situation after every knockdown. Now on the one hand, it's bad for the
attacker because they can't maintain pressure. On the other, the defender
doesn't have to worry about having to guess on wake up. So it's an aspect of
the game that can work for or against you. The problem is, I simply don't like
this style of fighting game. It's exactly why I quit SFxT. There was rarely
ever any tension during the match because you could ukemi out of knockdowns,
and once you did score a knockdown, 80% of the time momentum was simply just
reset. So for me it was never a case of adapting to ukemi in SFxT (you
couldn't even adapt to it until v2012 where it became throw punishable), it was
just a question of whether or not there was anything else in the game that made
up for it being in the game in the first place.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Williams
<ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

I think the biggest factor - which also happens to be what people hate - is the
ability to adapt and to accept change.

A few years ago, when T6:BR was released, l hated it. It didn't feel like the
Tekken games l'd played in the past (T5:DR specifically, which is tied with the
original Tekken Tag Tournament as one of my all time fave Tekken games). The
emphasis was less on poke play and spacing, with a noticeable shift to
string-based, 50/50-style gameplay. TTT2 was an all-out combo fest which barely
resembled it's predecessor. It had slightly improved movement, but it also had
several glaring flaws.

I played both games for a long time. I wanted both games to be something they
weren't and would never be. Personally, l've made peace with the fact that
newer fighting games will not emulate the gameplay that vets favour. You'll
have to adapt to the new way of doing things. Expecting modern fighting games
to be virtually identical to the games of yore is unrealistic and will only
result in frustration.

When it comes to something like T7 or even SFV, l'd still be happy to play both
games if there is something to enjoy. If not, l have so many other fighting
games to play that it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if these games don't
provide a satisfactory experience. All l'm saying is, l'm prepared to adapt to
the new changes, for better or for worse. We live in an age where we aren't
always going to get what we want as seasoned fighting game players. That's the

On 25 Nov 2015 13:53, "Di Lhong"
<marongdin@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yeah. It's only in certain situation where frame is put into factor in my case
(like df1 on hit or block). But in terms on using it raw, the walk speed
doesn't effect as much i think since we tend to move around in open space. But
in terms of df1 on hit...if i don't do dragunov's d2 (low swipe) instantly,
there's a lower chance of it hitting and if i have to dash in a bit after df1
hits. The momentum is shifted to my opponent.

Still need to get used to system changes. Getting up is VERY different now. No
more float okis.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Ilitirit Sama
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
In theory it should work like that but in practice it turns that the shorter
distances make certain things more risky because of factors like frame
advantage and pushback. To put it in another way, suppose you have a sword and
a knife. You obviously use the knife for short range combat, and the sword
from further away. The sword allows you to play a distance game; knife allows
you to attack quickly from up close. Now if you reduce the sword to just
slightly longer than the knife, you can still do the same thing but now it
becomes much more risky because it because easier for the opponent to
counter-attack if they block. So you might as well just use the knife.

This is exactly what happened with Ryu's<> and<> in SFV.<> was his main poking tool. It
had less frame advantage than<>, but it was very good at
controlling space. Now that<> and<> have
the same range, there's no reason to use<> anymore,
especially since it's negative on block.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Wynand-Ben
<paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Isnt this just something you need to get used to?

You are used to your old range so it feels odd and you need to retrain you
The new characters dont have any existing stuff that people are hanging on to,
so their ranges dont feel wierd since its all new?

Just speculation.

We the need to god damned game on consoles...

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:01:37 +0700
Subject: Re: RE:
From: marongdin@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I see. I wonder if these changes were intentional or a "stealth" nerf.

The biggest issue is when i want to use a move at max range to "reset" my
position to a comfortable zone that i know my character have superior
advantage...but wiffs...thank you harada lolz

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ilitirit Sama
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
How do you guys deal with this in SF or other 2D fighter games (with out the
use of projectiles

I generally... don't. It's like you said, in situations where certain and
actions and strategies become really risky then defense becomes more important.
I wonder if game developers actually realise this.

SFV has this same issue. It seems to me that Namco and Capcom want to make
games where reading the opponent plays a bigger role than before. In the past,
top players would just stomp on everyone else because they had superior
movement, spacing and command of their characters' toolsets. In SFV and in
Tekken, toolsets and basic movement are nerfed, and spacing cannot be used as
effectively to control the opponent because of the lower pushback. This
shortens the gap between top and lower levels, but also leads to high risk/high
reward play, or situations where neither player is a willing to commit to a

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Di Lhong
<marongdin@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Walking speed in T7 is throwing me (espcially with dragunov's d2) and a few top
players off in some situation. Executing moves as fast as possible usually miss
now in certain situation. I see Knee and other koreans are having issue with
this too. (Knee lost mastercup because is generic d4 wiffed after fff3 on
block...). And to dash up and do the same move doesn't work as well, since the
advantage is put into the defensive player. I remember Salie mentioning about
the nerfed push back on block moves.

How do you guys deal with this in SF or other 2D fighter games (with out the
use of projectiles...since T7 doesn't have projectiles. So their footsies is a
bit different?)

The 2 new ORIGINAL characters (Katarina and Claudio) doesn't have this issue
for some odd reason. Their range is insane. The recycled "new" characters like
Josie, Gigas, Lucky Chloe and even Shaheen in certain situations seem to have
range issue.

It seems like the game favors the person holding back even more so now. Which
is perfect for me lolz

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir
<nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

I saw the video last night as well.
It looks worse in motion.

On 25 Nov 2015 08:29, "Donaldson, Alasdair"
<alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Good to see that they’re using the new tech to the fullest. Sigh.

Also, now I’ve got that song stuck in my head -

My blue jeans is tight…

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On
Behalf Of Ilitirit Sama
Sent: 24 November 2015 06:26 PM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: RE:

Lol this looks so much like a troll pic. Real unfortunately.

[Andy Bogard King of Fighters 14 image #4]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir
<nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

That's pretty neet.

Still want to get a regular android tab to work with remote play as well.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Ilitirit Sama
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

PS4 remote play on PC.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Ilitirit Sama
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Lol, did SNKP really name their latest KOFXIV trailer a "pre-PSX promo"?

I mean, even I wouldn't be as harsh as calling it Megadrive-era graphics...

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Ilitirit Sama
<ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

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