Re: Re:

  • From: Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:54:32 +0200

I'll be there!
On 27 Nov 2015 08:52, "lindsey kiviets" <lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Morning peeps,

Ima be at sessin tomorrow. Can I get headcount on whose coming? so I know
what to bring ps3 or pc.

*From:* cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* 25 November 2015 08:19 PM
*To:* cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re:

I understand they're trying to attract more players. But does changing
movement make people want to play more? only thing that this changed is the
skill gap between top players and mid level players. Which are the 2 group
that will play the game anyways since they like the franchise.

However, T7 have did brought back older veterans from the dead like
Soyongdori, Crazydongpal, etc. While they were MIA in TTT2. TTT2 was too
much of a mess when it comes to tag combos, tag assault and set ups. It's a
combo fest like you said. But on solo mode, it's pretty decent.

T7 have those odd T5 mini combos along with "bound" combos too. Like Lei's
uf4 f~2 f~2 f~2 ff34 nonsense lolz. So far the game is still in beta. I can
see some of the characters (especially the recycled ones like LUCKY CHLOE!
and Gigas) needs work. They added moves from other characters which are
completely useless in every way. They even said they added those move so
people have familiarity to older characters -_- 0 function. But Capo-lite
is so fun to play. The struggle makes it fun i guess lolz.

Overall, the direction T7 is going is pretty good. But just need to
release the rest of the cast and polish some of the "new" characters...they
really feel unfinished somehow.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>

I second pretty much everything you mentioned. My question is, what is
the solution when you're in the minority and have little to no influence?
Dissatisfaction and frustration won't accomplish much unless there's
universal consensus, which - let's face it - is unlikely.
On 25 Nov 2015 15:51, "Ilitirit Sama" <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I agree that a distinction should be made between adaptation and
tolerance in this regard, but if a game development company already has a
vision and direction in mind for a particular game that they are not
prepared to deviate from unless it is absolutely necessary, you're
ultimately faced with two choices: play the game or don't.

True, and in SFV's case they deviated a lot from their original hype
line of high damage/stun. Damage is on par with SFIV now, and even less in
some cases.

But sometimes you can also be more-or-less aligned with the vision, but
not with the strategy to achieve the goals, or even the implementation of
the strategy.

Simplified example:
Vision - Ono and Harada say they want more people to play fighting games
Strategy - They're going to realise this vision by making the game more
accessible to newcomers *and* shorten the gap between beginners and veterans
Implementation - Lower execution barriers, and weaken tactics beginners
find hard to deal with (oki, strong normals, spacing, zoning etc)

I completely agree with the vision. I want more people to play FGs.

I agree that games could be made more accessible. I don't agree in
shortening the gap between beginners and veterans.

I don't have a problem with lowering execution barriers if it doesn't
have a negative impact on gameplay (see Rising Thunder - 1 button specials
make cross-ups useless unless you attack during cooldown), and I don't
agree that fundamental, tried-and-tested battle strategies should be
weakened to accommodate new players. I mean, this is one of the reasons I
play Fighting Games after all.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>

I agree that a distinction should be made between adaptation and
tolerance in this regard, but if a game development company already has a
vision and direction in mind for a particular game that they are not
prepared to deviate from unless it is absolutely necessary, you're
ultimately faced with two choices: play the game or don't.

There are a number of things in a wide variety of fighting games that l
absolutely despise. Do l possess the necessary influence as an avid,
experienced and long time fighting game player to force the developer's
hand so that my specific criteria are met? Not really. If that truly was
the case, many modern fighting games would most likely have turned out very
differently. The reality of the matter is that the arcade scene and
mentality will not return. Those days are long gone and we have to look to
the future, even if that future contains things that we can't make sense
of; at least, not initially.

Returning to the subject of adaptation versus tolerance, if the latter
is one's immediate reaction to a particular game, it's safe to say that
you'd know which decision to make. I personally wouldn't waste my time on a
game that l know l'd only be able to tolerate.
On 25 Nov 2015 15:03, "Ilitirit Sama" <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think the biggest factor - which also happens to be what people
hate - is the ability to adapt and to accept change.

I agree for the most part, but I think that sometimes adaptation gets
conflated with tolerance. For example, let's say there's a game that
forces a neutral situation after every knockdown. Now on the one hand,
it's bad for the attacker because they can't maintain pressure. On the
other, the defender doesn't have to worry about having to guess on wake
up. So it's an aspect of the game that can work for or against you. The
problem is, I simply don't like this style of fighting game. It's exactly
why I quit SFxT. There was rarely ever any tension during the match
because you could ukemi out of knockdowns, and once you did score a
knockdown, 80% of the time momentum was simply just reset. So for me it
was never a case of adapting to ukemi in SFxT (you couldn't even adapt to
it until v2012 where it became throw punishable), it was just a question
whether or not there was anything else in the game that made up for it
being in the game in the first place.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>

I think the biggest factor - which also happens to be what people
hate - is the ability to adapt and to accept change.

A few years ago, when T6:BR was released, l hated it. It didn't feel
like the Tekken games l'd played in the past (T5:DR specifically, which
tied with the original Tekken Tag Tournament as one of my all time fave
Tekken games). The emphasis was less on poke play and spacing, with a
noticeable shift to string-based, 50/50-style gameplay. TTT2 was an
combo fest which barely resembled it's predecessor. It had slightly
improved movement, but it also had several glaring flaws.

I played both games for a long time. I wanted both games to be
something they weren't and would never be. Personally, l've made peace
the fact that newer fighting games will not emulate the gameplay that
favour. You'll have to adapt to the new way of doing things. Expecting
modern fighting games to be virtually identical to the games of yore is
unrealistic and will only result in frustration.

When it comes to something like T7 or even SFV, l'd still be happy to
play both games if there is something to enjoy. If not, l have so many
other fighting games to play that it wouldn't bother me in the slightest
these games don't provide a satisfactory experience. All l'm saying is,
prepared to adapt to the new changes, for better or for worse. We live in
an age where we aren't always going to get what we want as seasoned
fighting game players. That's the reality.
On 25 Nov 2015 13:53, "Di Lhong" <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yeah. It's only in certain situation where frame is put into factor
in my case (like df1 on hit or block). But in terms on using it raw, the
walk speed doesn't effect as much i think since we tend to move around
open space. But in terms of df1 on hit...if i don't do dragunov's d2
swipe) instantly, there's a lower chance of it hitting and if i have to
dash in a bit after df1 hits. The momentum is shifted to my opponent.

Still need to get used to system changes. Getting up is VERY
different now. No more float okis.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>

In theory it should work like that but in practice it turns that
the shorter distances make certain things more risky because of factors
like frame advantage and pushback. To put it in another way, suppose
have a sword and a knife. You obviously use the knife for short range
combat, and the sword from further away. The sword allows you to play
distance game; knife allows you to attack quickly from up close. Now
you reduce the sword to just slightly longer than the knife, you can
do the same thing but now it becomes much more risky because it because
easier for the opponent to counter-attack if they block. So you might
well just use the knife.

This is exactly what happened with Ryu's and in SFV. was his main poking tool. It had less frame advantage than, but it was very good at controlling space. Now that
and have the same range, there's no reason to use
anymore, especially since it's negative on block.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Wynand-Ben <
paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Isnt this just something you need to get used to?

You are used to your old range so it feels odd and you need to
retrain you brain.
The new characters dont have any existing stuff that people are
hanging on to, so their ranges dont feel wierd since its all new?

Just speculation.

We the need to god damned game on consoles...

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:01:37 +0700
Subject: Re: RE:
From: marongdin@xxxxxxxxx
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I see. I wonder if these changes were intentional or a "stealth"

The biggest issue is when i want to use a move at max range to
"reset" my position to a comfortable zone that i know my character
superior advantage...but wiffs...thank you harada lolz

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx

How do you guys deal with this in SF or other 2D fighter games
(with out the use of projectiles

I generally... don't. It's like you said, in situations where
certain and actions and strategies become really risky then defense
more important. I wonder if game developers actually realise this.

SFV has this same issue. It seems to me that Namco and Capcom
want to make games where reading the opponent plays a bigger role than
before. In the past, top players would just stomp on everyone else
they had superior movement, spacing and command of their characters'
toolsets. In SFV and in Tekken, toolsets and basic movement are
and spacing cannot be used as effectively to control the opponent
of the lower pushback. This shortens the gap between top and lower
but also leads to high risk/high reward play, or situations where
player is a willing to commit to a move.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>

Walking speed in T7 is throwing me (espcially with dragunov's d2)
and a few top players off in some situation. Executing moves as fast
possible usually miss now in certain situation. I see Knee and other
koreans are having issue with this too. (Knee lost mastercup because
generic d4 wiffed after fff3 on block...). And to dash up and do the
move doesn't work as well, since the advantage is put into the
player. I remember Salie mentioning about the nerfed push back on

How do you guys deal with this in SF or other 2D fighter games
(with out the use of projectiles...since T7 doesn't have projectiles.
their footsies is a bit different?)

The 2 new ORIGINAL characters (Katarina and Claudio) doesn't have
this issue for some odd reason. Their range is insane. The recycled
characters like Josie, Gigas, Lucky Chloe and even Shaheen in certain
situations seem to have range issue.

It seems like the game favors the person holding back even more so
now. Which is perfect for me lolz

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir <
nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I saw the video last night as well.
It looks worse in motion.
On 25 Nov 2015 08:29, "Donaldson, Alasdair" <
alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Good to see that they’re using the new tech to the fullest. Sigh.

Also, now I’ve got that song stuck in my head -

My blue jeans is tight…

*From:* cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Ilitirit Sama
*Sent:* 24 November 2015 06:26 PM
*To:* cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: RE:

Lol this looks so much like a troll pic. Real unfortunately.

[image: Andy Bogard King of Fighters 14 image #4]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Nicholas Robertson-Muir <
nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That's pretty neet.

Still want to get a regular android tab to work with remote play
as well.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>

PS4 remote play on PC.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>

Lol, did SNKP really name their latest KOFXIV trailer a "pre-PSX

I mean, even I wouldn't be as harsh as calling it Megadrive-era

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>

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