Re: DRE: CTS community mail

  • From: Ashraf Barendse <ashraf.barendse@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 18:02:58 +0200

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Starting to understand that full screen isn't the best tactic for my
characters.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yeah i rewatched the vids and saw so many mistakes. Wasn't paying
attention on what i was doing. Also first match vs sonya so had 0 idea what
the hell she was doing -_-" not sure how to "fight" her. Tried to bait for
wiff punish dive kick. but dive kick on wiff is safe...also i thought it
was overhead.

That was very MK9 tactic with mileena. wanted to "zone" and then do
teleport kick...but doesn't work that way anymore. her sais are pretty bad
on block and hit now. so you can't do multiple sais from full screen
without being advanced by my opponent. As for Kano...only realize what move
punishes dive kick on block...but by then it was too late :(

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

@Di: Another important aspect of the neutral game is strategy.

You should rewatch your matches vs Nic in the finals that you guys
played Kamimodo. Myself and LB we commentating on what was happening in
the neutral game. For example, with Mileena and D'vorah you would often
jump back and then do a ranged attack which is a pretty common pattern in
SF and other 2D fighters (jumping back gives you space to do stuff without
fear of punishment). However, it's actually considered a very "noobish"
thing to do because an experienced player will recognize it and just
advance as you retreat so you lose all the advantages of giving yourself
space. But if the opponent has a way to punish fullscreen projectiles
(teleports, dive kicks.. *grumble*) they can turn the tables on you by
jumping back which gives you the illusion of safety. You recognize the
space and the fact that they are airborne so you take the opportunity to
throw a projectile. Then they teleport for 40% damage and a mixup :\


On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But space control in mkx is hard compare to other games. because some
moves advances the character so fast and so far. eg. cassie b+1.

Tekken is going that way too sadly with the new characters. Lars got
f+3 to advance instead of the player doing dashes themselves.

But the "neutral" game against lars is be at the range generic df+4 is.
Since all his lows will wiff and you don't need to duck at all. Just block
high and mid and punish :)

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Usually strings that are 0 on block have a gap where you can interrupt
it with backdash, armor or jumps. And the ones that can't be are usually -
on block (even though not punishable. but your pressure game is over-ish)

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Yeah, characters with teleports, divekicks and armour (the bane of 2D
fighters...) have ways around zoning, but another big factor is the rate
at
which NRS delivers balance changes. They don't give people time to
figure
out matchups.

Another thing that MKX suffers from IMO is the same thing that still
plagues SFxT - "faux footsies". Usually footsies is a test between 2
players' understanding of spacing, their normals and a bit of the
metagame. In SFxT, you had characters that can ignore all these because
they have safe, easy ways to get in (eg. the top tier Tekken characters).
So while the game is ground-based, the strategy is diminished because Kaz
can EWGF all day and you can't do anything about it. Lilly and Nina can
spam safe strings and end up in your face. etc etc. I'm seeing a lot of
the same thing in MKX.





On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

It really depends on match up. Some characters can deal with both
Subz and Quan "zoning" well. Game is still new and not a lot of
character
variety yet. The "popular" characters so far do have a hard time against
those 2 (like Cassie, Kung Jin, etc). But the underdogs do have a few
ways
to deal with those 2.

Also variation change can help. missile cassie should be better
against grand master subz than her brawler (who rely on up close
combat...which will never happen against subz gm)

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Grandmaster subby and summoner Quan are masters at zoning so in a
way their neutral game is very strong.


On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I think MKX is a bit different. Because you can't really control
space with "projectiles" since it goes through each other and
projectiles
frames aren't as great on block or hit now.

But from the vid i can see how they utilize normals to control
space. Like doing jabs after sonic beam to stop people from jumping
in?

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In SF perfect example of neutral game is a charge character vs
another charge character(except for Decapre) or zoner vs zoner.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Anyone got vids of how "neutral game" works? even if it's from
SF. Trying to get a better understanding on it :)

How is mkx neutral game up close different to sf?

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Maybe airstrike cassie would've been a better choice.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Di Lhong <marongdin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Yeah Cassie do suffer a bit from Grand Master Subz...all she
has is normals and no "range" attacks.

But what she should've done at the corner is after Subz do
f+41~clone...do a gun shot or something to break the clone...but
subz might
be able to slide and hit her since her gun shot is slow as hell...

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Manase Zote <
bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This match tho...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS8_QYB9krc

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Manase Zote <
bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This match was ass...

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Di Lhong <
marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbQnS-Q6e_o

the match i was talking about. was very eye opening on how
to play her for me :) d+4 ftw lolz

also d+4 in venomous adds poison damage that stacks. same
with f22...so the mentality of "i rather eat a low poke
instead of an
overhead starter" doesn't work. cos landing a few d+4 in a row
will stack
poison damage and do damage over time that could add up to
almost one small
combo damage.

RPG D'vorah lolz

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Ilitirit Sama <
ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Cool, I'll check out some of her matches.

There's more than just normals though. eg. some
characters have strings with built-in mixups (or armour) than
they can use
from mid-range because the ender is safe on block or even
advantageous. So
they can throw it out and get in for free. In a tradional
SF-style
figthing game I can see D'vorah being really strong in
neutral, but I'm not
so sure in MKX.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Di Lhong <
marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks for explaining neutral game :)

So it's like space pressure.

If that's the case. D'vorah does have a strong neutral
game. d1 d3 d4 f11 and f22 range and speed + frames beats a
lot of other
characters. her special moves aren't anything fancy to throw
out randomly.
but her normals are very strong :) saw a vid where someone
just used 2
moves to win. d4 and f22.



On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Di Lhong <
marongdin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

scorps 11 being 7frame and 12 being 9frames is the
second hit.

if you want to know how fast your jab is...go to the
first page of the movelist and see how fast you "1" is.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 5:53 AM, lindsey kiviets <
lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

morning peeps,

neutral game is when you not going anywhere. when you
in a standing position and you control dat space in front
of you.

also , scorps 11 is 7f startup, but 12 is 9f.

I saw that you cant do 11 FRC 214 combo.

11 is your main punisher. scorp hellfire is kuk cheap,
doing DOT dmg in mid combo is not right.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 02:03:29 +0200
Subject: Re: DRE: CTS community mail
From: marongdin@xxxxxxxxx
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Anyone want to explain to me what does "neutral game"
mean?

I'm not too familiar with fighting game
terminology...unless it's tekken...

Tried to google it but still not entirely sure what it
is :/

Is it the same as wiff punishing?

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:44 PM, euraima tobias <
euraima@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm with salie, armour and tp's are cheating. "gimme
some space bro!"
On 13 May 2015 4:10 PM, "Ilitirit Sama" <
ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

2D fighters need fewer armoured moves and teleports.
They're such a brainless way of providing "balance".






















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