[cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
- From: "Patrick Burns" <p.burns@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:14:38 -0700
JFK, as a collector of varieties only, I was not thinking of errors.
Nevertheless I think that some errors, such as rotations, could be incorporated
into an identification scheme even more easily than most varieties. A simple
"Rxxx" suffix would be all that is needed, with xxx representing the degree of
rotation. Other errors such as clipped planchets and cuds might require two
numbers, one to identify how much had been clipped off or cudded, and the other
to identify where. Of course things such as abraded dies and die breaks would
be harder to describe in such a manner. Just my two cents' worth, it is not my
bailiwick.
I have been unsuccessful trying to get Ken Potter's variety coin register
listings. It would be interesting to hear what his numbering system involves.
Based on his submissions to CCN and Charlton, it appears to be just a
sequential listing for each date starting with the letters VCR. We can do much
better.
As far as sharing the yet-to-be-accumulated CEVNA information, I think the
biggest incentive for adoption would be free and unfettered access. It would
be great if someone saved us the trouble of publishing it. My only concern
would be a scoundrel who published all our info, added a bit of his own, then
refused to share the bits he added with CEVNA. Perhaps we can legally
stipulate than anyone can publish CEVNA-derived info but must acknowledge it
and share back.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: JFK
To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
Hi. I'm JFK!!!! Some kind of a numbering system would be great for variety
coins (e.g., letter spacing, obverse types, doubling, die cracks, etc)! For
error coins (e.g., offcenter, curved clips, off-metal, etc.), a numbering
system is superfluous. Herbert created an error coin numbering system -- but
it's never used in commercial transactions or in other reference
books/websites. Error coins are always described by name (+ amount of error +
direction + side). Herbert's system might be a good basis to organize variety
coin listings, but I wouldn't bother with the error coin side of things.
Regarding variety numbering, is Ken Potter's system adequate? He is billed as
a worldwide die variety listing guy. With his system the discoverer's name is
associated with every new find. Presumably he (or CONECA) owns the numbering
system. As a caveat, I'm not very familiar with varieties so I don't know if
his method a good one.
Regarding copyright, it's nice to say we'd like totally free sharing by all!
Then again, if in a couple years someone rips off the entire CEVNA database &
publishes it as their own printed book that could be a problem. A reasonable
middle ground might be to give free unrestricted permission to use up to a
certain number of images/data & always with a "Copyright CEVNA" reference. The
copyright reference also doubles as a little advertisement for the
organization.
~ JFK ~
On 8/13/06, Fenix <fenix@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I agree, if the club would develop a simple, extendable, numbering system
> that could be used to catalogue errors and varieties it would be very
> beneficial to the hobby.
>
> I think the Herbert division structure for classification is a good
> framework to model from.
>
> Bill it would be great if you could find your original proposal, it would
be
> very helpful to understand what you had worked out. I am sure there a number
> of people with some thoughts on this.
>
> Henry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> moorecoins@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: August 13, 2006 12:17 PM
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
> Zonad (Randy) and all.
>
> I believe that the free sharing of information on error coinage will
> immensely benefit error collecting in Canada and the hobby in general. My
> vote is make information on errors as available as possible to the
> numismatic community.
>
> I would also recommend that the new error club develope a numbering system.
> (I like Alan Herbert's system). The new system should be copyrighted, with
> the club owning the copyright. Permission can be granted to Charlton or
> other publishing houses to use the numbering system, but ownership should
> remain an asset of the club.
>
> Chuck Moore
> President, C.N.A.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Bill Hall syl.bil@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:35:36 -0400
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
>
> Randy (and all)
>
> I have a numbering system that I had proposed to Bill Cross for the
> Charlton variety books, but they went a different way just by using
> Griffins old numbers (which they hold the copyright to). It was also
> before I found out that Charlton was going to categorize all the varieties
> by date spacing, font/size & alignment, rather than Obverse repunching or
> numeral repunching on the reverse .. more in tune with Griffin than
> anything. I will see if I can dig it out somewhere, but don't know if
> "errors" will fit into it, but it was massaged from Herbert's book so maybe
> it will be OK.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:47 AM
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
>
> Yes, a library of varieties would be great, it benefits all in the long
> run. Would Charlton want us to develop a numbering system and then
> cross-reference? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Do we need a
> numbering system? Something simple would be nice. 1858-10-o001 for a 1858
> ten cents obverse standard. 1858-10-r001 for the reverse.
>
> Yes, share all info for free but how does membership reward you?
> Membership allows you to submit discoveries and have name posted with same?
>
> Randy (Zonad)
>
> I've attached a photo of a doubled Specimen 1967 dollar. Is it a machine
> double or doubled die?
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns
> Sent: August 13, 2006 8:07 AM
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
> It is important to get this right from the outset, and I have a few
> opinions.
>
> If, as I hope, we will be compiling a library of varieties, we need a
> way to organize everything. I think it is clear we need a better numbering
> system than Charlton's in order to do so effectively and in order to make
> advances independently of Charlton. I would gladly participate in
> developing such a convention. That said, it might still be handy (but not
> crucial) to obtain the permission of Charlton to cross-reference to their
> variety numbers.
>
> As a previous post indicated, we must ensure that CEVNA is free to use
> or disseminate any information submitted.
>
> We should allow anyone to use our pictures, variety numbers, etc. in
> any way without having to ask our permission.
>
> Thoughts?
> Pat
>
>
>
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