[cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
- From: "Bill Hall" <syl.bil@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:11:18 -0400
I do not think that the link provided constitutes any kind of law. It looks to
be a paper written by someone. I do not understand "semcnm"'s statement about
once you give Cevna permission to use your own stuff, then you can't use it
yourself .. but then again I have a hard time understanding alot of the things
that he posts on CCRS because of spelling, syntax or punctuation. Nothing bad
about him or his/her English, just that I have a hard time deciphering the
statements. I read the link provided and never got that impression.
----- Original Message -----
From: semcnm
To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
one problem i see with the copyright is if members send in pictures without
there copyright on them . The pictures will not be copywrited by copyrighting
the site .
Rather those pictures will be available for anyone to take and use because
there not qualifyed to be copyrighted by the sites copyright . The pictures are
not covered unless you all give cevna or fenix permission to use them with or
without restrictions . And once members give that permission then the pictures
are useless to the owner of the pictures because there not allowed to post them
anywhere else for public display . I am gathering the simple way around this is
for people just to add "Copyright © 2006 john doe " to their pictures before
submission .
----- Original Message -----
From: Denis
To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
As I see it presently we have a few hurdles to over come.Definately require
a numbering system ,and copy right protection !!! I have no idea what this
will cost but it will not be cheap, but neccessary...
Denis
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Mosher
To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
Due to my lack of knowledge in this area, I won't comment on the
numbering system other than to say that I believe that one is needed,
especially if the CEVNA database is to become what I think (hope) it will be.
I do agree with JFK though, in that copyrights are essential for the
site. I would even suggest that ANY material taken from the site would have to
include a copyright reference, especially if used for any possible financial
gain. As JFK points out, if someone should try to publish, for personal gain,
the site's assets, morally this is wrong and furthermore the same individuals
could even go as far as copyrighting our material as their own, thus limiting,
or worse, prohibiting CEVNA the use of its own material. Sharing information is
not only good but necessary for numismatics and CEVNA should, in my opinion,
promote this fully. I don't believe, however, that anyone should take advantage
of this or use our collective knowledge for personal gain without the
Association's consent.
Just my thoughts.
Kevin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of JFK
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 11:12 AM
To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
Hi. I'm JFK!!!! Some kind of a numbering system would be great for
variety coins (e.g., letter spacing, obverse types, doubling, die cracks, etc)!
For error coins (e.g., offcenter, curved clips, off-metal, etc.), a numbering
system is superfluous. Herbert created an error coin numbering system -- but
it's never used in commercial transactions or in other reference
books/websites. Error coins are always described by name (+ amount of error +
direction + side). Herbert's system might be a good basis to organize variety
coin listings, but I wouldn't bother with the error coin side of things.
Regarding variety numbering, is Ken Potter's system adequate? He is
billed as a worldwide die variety listing guy. With his system the discoverer's
name is associated with every new find. Presumably he (or CONECA) owns the
numbering system. As a caveat, I'm not very familiar with varieties so I don't
know if his method a good one.
Regarding copyright, it's nice to say we'd like totally free sharing by
all! Then again, if in a couple years someone rips off the entire CEVNA
database & publishes it as their own printed book that could be a problem. A
reasonable middle ground might be to give free unrestricted permission to use
up to a certain number of images/data & always with a "Copyright CEVNA"
reference. The copyright reference also doubles as a little advertisement for
the organization.
~ JFK ~
On 8/13/06, Fenix <fenix@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I agree, if the club would develop a simple, extendable, numbering
system
> that could be used to catalogue errors and varieties it would be very
> beneficial to the hobby.
>
> I think the Herbert division structure for classification is a good
> framework to model from.
>
> Bill it would be great if you could find your original proposal, it
would be
> very helpful to understand what you had worked out. I am sure there a
number
> of people with some thoughts on this.
>
> Henry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> moorecoins@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: August 13, 2006 12:17 PM
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
> Zonad (Randy) and all.
>
> I believe that the free sharing of information on error coinage will
> immensely benefit error collecting in Canada and the hobby in general.
My
> vote is make information on errors as available as possible to the
> numismatic community.
>
> I would also recommend that the new error club develope a numbering
system.
> (I like Alan Herbert's system). The new system should be copyrighted,
with
> the club owning the copyright. Permission can be granted to Charlton
or
> other publishing houses to use the numbering system, but ownership
should
> remain an asset of the club.
>
> Chuck Moore
> President, C.N.A.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Bill Hall syl.bil@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:35:36 -0400
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
>
> Randy (and all)
>
> I have a numbering system that I had proposed to Bill Cross for the
> Charlton variety books, but they went a different way just by using
> Griffins old numbers (which they hold the copyright to). It was also
> before I found out that Charlton was going to categorize all the
varieties
> by date spacing, font/size & alignment, rather than Obverse repunching
or
> numeral repunching on the reverse .. more in tune with Griffin than
> anything. I will see if I can dig it out somewhere, but don't know if
> "errors" will fit into it, but it was massaged from Herbert's book so
maybe
> it will be OK.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:47 AM
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
>
> Yes, a library of varieties would be great, it benefits all in the long
> run. Would Charlton want us to develop a numbering system and then
> cross-reference? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Do we need a
> numbering system? Something simple would be nice. 1858-10-o001 for a
1858
> ten cents obverse standard. 1858-10-r001 for the reverse.
>
> Yes, share all info for free but how does membership reward you?
> Membership allows you to submit discoveries and have name posted with
same?
>
> Randy (Zonad)
>
> I've attached a photo of a doubled Specimen 1967 dollar. Is it a
machine
> double or doubled die?
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:cndcoinerrs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns
> Sent: August 13, 2006 8:07 AM
> To: cndcoinerrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [cndcoinerrs]: Re: Catalogue of Varieties
>
> It is important to get this right from the outset, and I have a few
> opinions.
>
> If, as I hope, we will be compiling a library of varieties, we
need a
> way to organize everything. I think it is clear we need a better
numbering
> system than Charlton's in order to do so effectively and in order to
make
> advances independently of Charlton. I would gladly participate in
> developing such a convention. That said, it might still be handy (but
not
> crucial) to obtain the permission of Charlton to cross-reference to
their
> variety numbers.
>
> As a previous post indicated, we must ensure that CEVNA is free to
use
> or disseminate any information submitted.
>
> We should allow anyone to use our pictures, variety numbers, etc. in
> any way without having to ask our permission.
>
> Thoughts?
> Pat
>
>
>
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