No Niklas, I don't think you were harsh at all. I completely agree with everything you've said, and I definitely think this should be a priority. Stephen, the specific things I mentioned were just examples, but I could have written pages about why the current website, while just fine for dev purposes, is insufficient for attracting the general public to our project/product. Alain -----Original Message----- From: ciphershed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ciphershed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Niklas Lemcke - ??? Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 04:42 To: ciphershed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ciphershed] Re: Website & publicity I seem to have been a little harsh. Please keep commenting, I'm just afraid of the negative influences a wiki-only presence might have. On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 15:57:14 +0800 Niklas Lemcke - 林樂寬 <compul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 23:55:17 -0400 > Stephen R Guglielmo <srguglielmo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Alain Forget <aforget@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the website doesn't look, read, or feel like a "normal" > > > website. It does have a very "developer" feel to it. The front page talks > > > about the project being managed by experienced and passionate > > > programmers, KISS philosophy, non-anonymous dev, public code edits...yeah > > > yeah, that all sounds good, but nowhere does the page say *what > > > CipherShed is*! ("Cross-platform on-the-fly encryption software." is > > > horribly technical and doesn't tell users anything meaningful) Any > > > end-user coming to this page will think, "Uhh, I must be the wrong > > > place." It's a fine site for us technical people working on the project > > > (I'm happy we even have a logo!), but for any (non-technical) users (who > > > just want to use the software and not get involved), it could be better. > > > > > > Perhaps it's as simple as putting our current webpage one level down > > > (accessible through a "Developers" or "Contribute" link) from a more > > > user-welcoming front-end that Niklas is suggesting. > > > > > > Regarding the About page, I'm afraid it won't likely have the effect you > > > hope it will. It's just a bunch of words that anyone could have typed (or > > > randomly generated!); it provides no evidence that we are who we claim, > > > and that we've done the things we claim (and thus have that expertise). > > > So there should be links to those projects' webpages that people can go > > > see and confirm that it really exists and see that we did indeed > > > participate in those projects. There should be links to our own webpages > > > that talk about our past and current work. Both Bill and Stephen have > > > such pages; I was rather surprised that you didn't put a link from the > > > About page to your sites. Basically, anything at all (links!) that shows > > > that we are real people with real expertise, real skills, real history, > > > and real reputability (and thus accountability). > > > > > > Alain > > > > I feel as though everything you mentioned can easily be changed...The > > introduction page can easily be changed by anyone with write access > > (which Niklas can give to you). We can describe what CipherShed is, we > > can add a screenshot or two, we can add more information on the About > > page. The technical information on the Introduction page can be moved > > to another page easily. > > > > I think there's logistical issues with having a "regular" home page. > > It would either rely on one person for updates (Niklas, since he's > > running the server) or he would have to give out SSH access to the > > server to allow anyone else to edit. What happens if he's on vacation, > > for example, and we have a security issue that we need to post ASAP? > > > > I suppose if we do go down that path, we can create another git repo > > under the CipherShed account with our homepage code. That way, anyone > > can contribute via a pull request. However, it would still rely on a > > single person to update the website from the git repo (basically, a > > `git clone` then `rm -r .git`). > > > > Yes, we have a page with all the information we need to give out. > No, it is neither clean nor user-friendly nor inviting. It is a wiki, a > knowledge base for all the information that there is. When my dad would > browse to ciphershed.org and to truecrypt.ch he would pick truecrypt.ch > without a second thought, not even considering the fact that they're > not actually doing anything. Many, probably most end-users are that > way. Even I would tend to want to use anything truecrypt.ch offers, > just because of the appearance. > > A decent, clean, professional surface for the common public is > absolutely crucial. > > A wiki and forum beyond that are good to provide a platform for > discussions, documentations and more detailed infos for people that are > interested. They are all we need before we actually release something. > But when we offer our software to the public, we need the above > mentioned. > > Also, WP would be one of several options to remove any logistical > issues. No need to be all complicated with git. > -- Niklas At the time of writing, no warrants have ever been served to me, Niklas Lemcke, nor am I under any personal legal compulsion concerning the CipherShed project. I do not know of any searches or seizures of my assets.