The reality of being so distributed will always leave some feeling left out, there's not a vast amount can be done about that. Not everyone needs to be present at every discussion in order to participate, part of the PMCs job is to survey the community and facilitate debate both before (to aquire a community position) and after (to arrive at a decision) any major decision takes place, be it internally or externally. On 24/06/2014 19:08, Alain Forget wrote: > Well, I *think* the IRC is understood to be a less formal venue, where if > things need feedback from the community, it should be elevated to the forum > or mailing list (especially the latter, if you want to get everyone's > attention). However, I fear that these pre-scheduled synchronised voice chat > meetings where important information will be transmitted can leave some > feeling left out, simply because they're in the wrong timezone, or have other > real-life commitments. > > But as Chris said, I suppose meeting minutes and actual votes could be > circulated by mailing list. > > Alain > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ciphershed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ciphershed- >> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pid Zero >> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 13:48 >> To: ciphershed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: [ciphershed] Re: Mumble voice chat with Jos at 3PM EST >> >> Inclusion? By that argument we should shut down the forum & IRC. Since not >> everyone uses them and can be included in the conversation (assuming >> everyone wants or needs to be). In fact, why not shutdown the mailing list to >> as to not exclude the forum only or IRC only users? >> >> Voice chat is one of the mediums that we should try to use to encourage >> more participation, not less. >> >> <Replied from my mobile so please excuse the fat fingering & lack of PGP. I >> advise that any technical info in this email be subject to external scrutiny> >> -- >> At the time of writing, no warrants have been served to me, nor am I >> under any legal compulsion concerning the CipherShed project. I do not >> know of any searches of seizures of my assets. >> >> On Tuesday, June 24, 2014, Alain Forget <aforget@xxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: ciphershed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;> >> [mailto:ciphershed- <javascript:;> >> >bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;> ] On Behalf Of Pid Zero >> >Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 13:31 >> >To: ciphershed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <javascript:;> >> >Subject: [ciphershed] Re: Mumble voice chat with Jos at 3PM EST >> > >> >Nobody is going to compell you install a voice chat app if you have >> issues with >> >it. But that doesn't exclude others from using them. It'll always be a >> game of >> >catch up (with some missing the prime opportunity to chime in) on >> the basis >> >that thanks to the 24hr nature of the project, there's always >> discussion >> >happening. >> > >> >Even when the PMC is created. There's not going to be a situation in >> which >> >only the people awake during the time when an issue is being >> discussed get to >> >make a binding decision. The fact that none of those on the PMC- >> elect live in >> >the same timeline prohibits it. So I wouldn't worry about being left >> behind. >> > >> >The mailing list is great for having wider discussions with the whole >> >community. But it's not a great place for back & forth dialogue. At >> least not >> >efficiently. As for transparency, the PMC is the only body capable of >> making >> >project oriented decisions and it's discussions will be publicly >> available by >> >design. >> > >> ><Replied from my mobile so please excuse the fat fingering & lack of >> PGP. I >> >advise that any technical info in this email be subject to external >> scrutiny> >> >-- >> >At the time of writing, no warrants have been served to me, nor am I >> >under any legal compulsion concerning the CipherShed project. I do >> not >> >know of any searches of seizures of my assets. >> > >> >On Tuesday, June 24, 2014, Stephen R Guglielmo >> <srguglielmo@xxxxxxxxx <javascript:;> > >> >wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Bill Cox >> <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx <javascript:;> >> ><javascript:;> > wrote: >> > > Hi. Jos would like to have a Mumble chat with any of us who >> are >> >interested, >> > > and is trying to decide when. >> > >> > I do want to politely voice my opposition to using these "voice >> chats" >> > (Skype, Mumble, TeamSpeak) as a means of communication. >> > >> > I have a few personal issues with it, as well as issues for the >> > project overall. My personal issues are just that, personal, so >> > they're not too important. My busy schedule requires me to >> check my >> > email at work or elsewhere quite often and voice chats would not >> be >> > possible in those cases. I also do not own a microphone or >> webcam >> >and >> > have no interest in spending the money to purchase one. >> > >> > Some other issues I have that aren't so personal are the lack of >> > logging and transparency in voice chats. We invite people to >> join >> us, >> > yet we use methods which force them to install more software. >> There >> >is >> > no public logging/archive of voice chats either. Yes, they can >> be >> > recorded and posted as an mp3 somewhere, but that is still not >> very >> > practical. If a large decision is made during a voice call that >> > someone missed, they can be very "out of the loop" and rather >> > frustrated. I feel as though voice calls quickly eliminates the >> > participation of a majority people who want to be involved (even >> if >> > just observing). It involves software, often proprietary, to be >> > installed on everyone's systems. It's yet another thing to >> setup. I >> > already have 4 different passwords related directly to >> CipherShed >> >(WP, >> > forum, wiki, and GitHub). The number of "dependencies" just to >> stay >> > involved is increasing. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >-- >> >-- >> >At the time of writing, no warrants have ever been served to me, >> nor am I >> >under any personal legal compulsion concerning the >> >CipherShed project. I do not know of any searches or seizures of my >> >assets. >> >> I really think being ready by Saturday is really just not possible, >> between the 72-hour rule and the number of important action items the PMC >> need to deal with just to get organised, including: >> >> * private (?) mailing list >> * voting mechanism >> * decide on the PMC chair policy >> * come to a clear/formal/explicit consensus on CipherShed's and the >> PMC's mandate >> * clearly/explicitly define the QA team's role >> * elect QA team members >> * figure out what needs to be prepped/organised for the influx of >> contributors we're soon to have >> * other stuff I/we haven't thought of, lost track of, or that we'll >> discover along the way >> >> I'd love to hit the ground running and make super-fast progress, but >> there's just no way I see all this getting done by Saturday, unless the PMC >> can >> somehow have an über productive synchronised (e.g., Mumble/TeamSpeak) >> meeting. >> >> On the note of voice chat meetings, I agree with Stephen that they >> should be avoided whenever possible, for the purposes of inclusion and >> transparency. However, when there are a long list of items that we want to >> discuss, address, and (hopefully) resolve in a short period of time, they >> can be >> a lot faster and efficient than going back and forth over e-mail. However, >> that >> speed and efficiency comes at the cost of some transparency and a risk of >> leaving other out who couldn't make the call. It's a trade-off that I don't >> have a >> good answer for. >> >> If the call with Jos is going to go-ahead, my schedule is relatively >> flexible, so it's probably easier if you/others suggest times, and if one >> doesn't >> work for me, I'll let you know. I'm fine with almost all of the times Jos >> suggested. >> >> Alain >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> At the time of writing, no warrants have ever been served to me, nor am I >> under any personal legal compulsion concerning the >> CipherShed project. I do not know of any searches or seizures of my >> assets. > > > -- -- At the time of writing, no warrants have been served to me, nor am I under any legal compulsion concerning the CipherShed project. I do not know of any searches of seizures of my assets.
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