thanks lots, a much needed update, sounds incredable looking most forward to being able to make animations with batch render and more features in solid render. I did think the list had been a bit empty for a while and wondered if it had maby died and if other than me it had any users, then I decovered "world of warcaft" and played that in my spare time (is as addictive as fractals) I had temporarily forgotten about chaoscope/ultrafractal. may I remind the development team about suggestions I earler made that are not in the feature list. http://www.btinternet.com/~ndesprez/tutorials/images/search_pickover_map.jpg will u include the arability to make these maps? I remember talk on the list earlier about the arability to be more specific about how chaoscope used random, like deciding what conditions made an acceptable attractor when searching. I cannot find this in the feature list but I am probably not looking hard enough. Still not decided to include the attractor I invented, ohh well. Im gong to go do a chaoscope render right now, bye :-)