[celtic-language-tech] ATB/RE: ATB/RE: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress

From: Delyth Prys <d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Fangzhe Qiu <Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx>, Mícheál J. Ó Meachair <michealomeachair@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:12:57 +0000

Dear Fangzhe, Mícheál and all,

Thank you very much both of you for your additional comments which
unfortunately came too late for us to include in the roundtable this morning
but which we can incorporate into the subsequent notes that we will send round
the CLT goooglegroup.

The meeting was very well attended - - I neglected to count, but latecomers had
to sit on windowsills!

Some highlights (for me anyway) was suggestion that we should invite each other
to any workshops we are holding as topics are often of interest outside our
language communities. We also looked at transfer Learning and how we can do
more on developing common Celtic language models, including using historic
varieties of our languages which also may be closer together than the modern
varieties.

I also gave anothr plug for our CLTW workshop at Dublin in August, as well as
the proceedings of the first 2 workshops.

So thanks again to all who have participated in the round table, either with
their presence or remotely, and we hope to circulate the notes soon.

Delyth

[http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/logo-a2.png]<http://www.bangor.ac.uk/>
Delyth Prys
Pennaeth Uned Technolegau Iaith
Uned Technolegau Iaith, Canolfan Bedwyr

E-bost: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ffôn: +44 (0)1248 382800

Prifysgol Bangor, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/twitter-16.png]@prifysgolbangor<https://twitter.com/prifysgolbangor>
[http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/facebook-16.png] ;
/PrifysgolBangor<https://www.facebook.com/PrifysgolBangor>
Delyth Prys
Head of the Language Technologies Unit
Language Technologies Unit, Canolfan Bedwyr

Email: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Phone: +44 (0)1248 382800

Bangor University, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/twitter-16.png]@BangorUni<https://twitter.com/BangorUni>
[http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/facebook-16.png] ;
/BangorUniversity<https://www.facebook.com/BangorUniversity>

Oddi wrth: Fangzhe Qiu [mailto:Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx]
Anfonwyd: 26 July 2019 11:36
At: Mícheál J. Ó Meachair <michealomeachair@xxxxxxxxx>; Delyth Prys
<d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Copi/Cc: Theodorus Fransen <fransent@xxxxxx>; Colin Batchelor
<colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bernhard Bauer <Bernhard.Bauer@xxxxx>;
Oksana Dereza <oksana.dereza@xxxxxxxxx>; Oksana Dereza
<ahtene.elenhel@xxxxxxxxx>; Elliott Lash <Elliott.Lash@xxxxx>; Ó DUBHGHAILL,
ADRIAN <A.DOYLE35@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Pwnc: Re: ATB/RE: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress

Dear all,

Thanks for letting me in this conversation. Unfortunately I have already
returned to Dublin last night and cannot attend. I hope you all enjoy it and
would like to know what has been said at the event. As part of the ChronHib
team we have indeed encountered numerous technical problems, and we deeply feel
that communication between linguists and technicians is quintessential but
difficult, and perhaps that is one of the reasons why linguists are encouraged
to develop their own technical skills.
For a pioneering project such as ChronHib, we as linguists do not even know
from the beginning what we are looking for, whereas the technician would rely
on us to give him a complete and detailed plan so that he can build the
corresponding tools. It seems to us, in retrospective, that we should have the
technician involved in the initial stage of project design, and it would be far
better if we can recruit someone with basic knowledge of linguistics as well as
advanced technical skills. However, such a person is difficult to find -- the
salary we can offer is simply not competitive with that offered by the Tech
giants who are recruiting people with the same skills.
I would like to hear your opinion on this and other matters. Thanks again.

Best wishes,
Fangzhe
________________________________
From: Mícheál J. Ó Meachair
<michealomeachair@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:michealomeachair@xxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:00 AM
To: Delyth Prys <d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Cc: Theodorus Fransen <fransent@xxxxxx<mailto:fransent@xxxxxx>>; Colin
Batchelor
<colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

<celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
Fangzhe Qiu <Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx<mailto:Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx>>; Bernhard Bauer
<Bernhard.Bauer@xxxxx<mailto:Bernhard.Bauer@xxxxx>>; Oksana Dereza
<oksana.dereza@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:oksana.dereza@xxxxxxxxx>>; Oksana Dereza
<ahtene.elenhel@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ahtene.elenhel@xxxxxxxxx>>; Elliott Lash
<Elliott.Lash@xxxxx<mailto:Elliott.Lash@xxxxx>>; Ó DUBHGHAILL, ADRIAN
<A.DOYLE35@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:A.DOYLE35@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: ATB/RE: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress

Thanks for keeping me in the loop, Delyth. I'll open some wine at home since I
cannot join you, not the same but hey! ;-)

Great suggestions for the round table so far from everyone. Regarding these
round table topics I would like to second some of the suggestions that have
already been made, rather than making the same points again I'll try to add
context around them (this is also in lieu of my attendance).

(1) In some cases a project must come to an end, and sadly some come to an end
too soon. As far as I'm aware, it is not the knowledge of "how to use"
technologies or technical methodologies that is lost in the Irish context, it
is the ability to plan beyond each project and build upon knowledge and
expertise that has been developed during each project. This can extend to a
nuanced understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of technologies or
datasets of course.

Institiúd Teagneolaíochta Éireann was a fantastic example of an institute that
could conduct research, store the output of projects, build from one piece of
research to the next, and facilitate collaboration among experts from related
fields. Unfortunately its funding was discontinued as it was just getting into
its stride and possibly when it was needed most ... Link:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cut-off-in-funding-to-ite-1.400593)
...  #athbheochanITÉ

Question: Can an institution of this sort be established in this present
climate and where could it be established, if so?

(2) While I 100% agree with the need to educate language technologists, I think
we need to be careful what we wish for. This topic reminds me of some comments
made by Dr Robbie Love during his IVACS Malta plenary. He was questioning how
many programming skills linguists needed to function as linguists nowadays.
In essence, where the amount of applied linguistic research conducted on Irish
is relatively small one reason for this could be because the researchers are
both developing tools AND conducting linguistic research. I'm not sure if this
is the case for our sibling languages, but I think it is worth exploring the
depth that can be lost by adding breadth.

One suggestion here was ensuring all tools be brought to a stage of development
where they required no programming skills, where they can be easily installed,
and where the interfaces are easy to use. One possibility is localizing and
adding functionality to existing freeware or openware packages - such as
Lawrence Anthony's Ant Tools (https://www.laurenceanthony.net/software.html),
or similar.

This is a side-point, but I dabbled as an educational technologist for a short
while in a previous role and found this practice to be commonplace. A large
portion of conference talks (for all subjects) were based on adapting
pre-existing technologies or on experience applying pre-existing technologies
to each subject. Of course language-specific tools are needed for a number of
tasks, but let us not underestimate the value of localization and adapting
existing technologies.
Question: Which technologies does Irish have that other Celtic languages want,
which technologies do other Celtic language have that Irish wants, and which
technologies do other language have that we all want?

(3) My final comment is a quote from Tom Cargill regarding software
development: "The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90% of the
development time. The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of
the development time".

Sorry I was not able to be there - go n-éirí libh,
Mícheál
--

Ar Déar 25 Iúil 2019 ag 13:56, scríobh Delyth Prys
<d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>:

Hello everyone (with apologies to those of you who aren’t able to come to
Bangor – we’re having a great time ☺.)

Another subject that’s been flagged up a lot this week is sustainability of our
resources, especially after projects come to an end.

It was mentioned especially in conjunction with the eDil dictionary at the
beginning of the week, and there was also talk of some resources that aren’t
available any more on the web.

I propose therefore that we add sustainability as another thread to our Round
Table tomorrow morning.

Don’t forget the wine and cheese tonight for those of you who are around - with
apologies again to those that aren’t.

Delyth

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/logo-a2.png]<http://www.bangor.ac.uk/>

Delyth Prys
Pennaeth Uned Technolegau Iaith
Uned Technolegau Iaith, Canolfan Bedwyr

E-bost: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ffôn: +44 (0)1248 382800

Prifysgol Bangor, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
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Delyth Prys
Head of the Language Technologies Unit
Language Technologies Unit, Canolfan Bedwyr

Email: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Phone: +44 (0)1248 382800

Bangor University, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/twitter-16.png]@BangorUni<https://twitter.com/BangorUni>
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Oddi wrth: Theodorus Fransen [mailto:fransent@xxxxxx<mailto:fransent@xxxxxx>]
Anfonwyd: 24 July 2019 00:26
At: Delyth Prys <d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Copi/Cc: Colin Batchelor
<colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Fangzhe Qiu <Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx<mailto:Fangzhe.Qiu@xxxxx>>; Bernhard Bauer
<Bernhard.Bauer@xxxxx<mailto:Bernhard.Bauer@xxxxx>>; Oksana Dereza
<oksana.dereza@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:oksana.dereza@xxxxxxxxx>>; Oksana Dereza
<ahtene.elenhel@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ahtene.elenhel@xxxxxxxxx>>; Elliott Lash
<Elliott.Lash@xxxxx<mailto:Elliott.Lash@xxxxx>>; Ó DUBHGHAILL, ADRIAN
<A.DOYLE35@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:A.DOYLE35@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Pwnc: Re: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress

Dear all,

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this. For those who I cc'ed and have no
clue what's happening: this thread is concerning session 106, Fri morning
9.30-11 :-)

- I concur with Teresa re upskilling people in terms of technology in the
context of Digital Humanities. I'm interested in the education side of this
myself (while at the same time being a learner).

- As a historical linguist, I have noticed that annotation tools and standards
are often ad-hoc and annotation labour intensive. That's undoubtedly a result
of non-standard language and huge variability in the data (mainly typographic,
orthographic and diachronic variation). A discussion on how to streamline
methods and frameworks and how to use technology existing for modern Celtic
varieties (and make them compatible) would be welcome.

- following on from this, and more specific to my own research: How to
establish a healthy balance between manual annotation on the one hand and
automatic morphological/syntactic parsing technologies on the other. Celtic
languages, old and modern, obviously share some of the same features. In my
work on morphological analysis for Old Irish, I constantly struggle to find
this balance. The potential benefit of language-independent machine learning
might also fit in this discussion (I will address some of these issues in my
paper Thu morning, session 82 (11.30-1)).

I look forward to the event.

Best,

Dorus

On Mon 22 Jul 2019, 10:32 Delyth Prys,
<d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Thanks Colin!

Just got these from Teresa as well:

As for a suggestion of topics:

  *   It probably depends on the type of audience you have. But it would be
good to gauge what is happening in various language regions with respect to
skilling people up in the right combination of technical and linguistic skills.
Are there any new courses on the horizon? Even Digital Humanities courses with
a heavier tech approach than usual (ie linguists learning to script).

  *   With respect to our EPSRC/SFI proposal, and echoing Colin's q, we could
gauge what the immediate need (or interest) is from various language groups.

  *   I know you and Meghan might talk about MT - but it's worth asking her
about our participation in the ELRC project. It is a good example of "meitheal"
/cooperation. In minority language regions, when public administration and the
general public are aware of the need (and understand the value of) language
data - they tend to be more willing to contribute and participate. We recently
launched national portal to help people collect and manage their translation
data https://elri.dcu.ie/ga-ie/ ;(it also automatically generates TMX files from
collections of docs).

  *   And finally, while you have a variety of ears, it might be good to start
a discussion about how social media strengthens language communities - and
perhaps encouraging people to use it more often (I'd assume many in the
humanities/historical linguistics sphere could be slow on Twitter uptake?)

Any more?

Delyth

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/logo-a2.png]<http://www.bangor.ac.uk/>

Delyth Prys
Pennaeth Uned Technolegau Iaith
Uned Technolegau Iaith, Canolfan Bedwyr

E-bost: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ffôn: +44 (0)1248 382800

Prifysgol Bangor, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/twitter-16.png]@prifysgolbangor<https://twitter.com/prifysgolbangor>
[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/facebook-16.png] ;
/PrifysgolBangor<https://www.facebook.com/PrifysgolBangor>

Delyth Prys
Head of the Language Technologies Unit
Language Technologies Unit, Canolfan Bedwyr

Email: d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Phone: +44 (0)1248 382800

Bangor University, Bangor, Gwynedd, LL57 2DG

[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/twitter-16.png]@BangorUni<https://twitter.com/BangorUni>
[Mae'r anfonwr wedi tynnu'r ddelwedd.
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/emailtpl/facebook-16.png] ;
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Oddi wrth: Colin Batchelor
[mailto:colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:colin.r.batchelor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
Anfonwyd: 21 July 2019 21:16
At: Delyth Prys <d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Copi/Cc:
celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-technology@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:celtic-language-tech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Pwnc: Re: Round table at the Celtic Congress

Hello everyone,

I'm particularly keen to hear what people think are the top priorities for
Scottish Gaelic.

Best wishes and hopefully see lots of you later this week or at CLTW2019!

Colin.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 21:06, Delyth Prys
<d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:d.prys@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

Dear all,

I've been very late putting my mind to this, but the Celtic Congress week at
Bangor has finally arrived, and our session is down for next Friday, from
9.30-11.00 am.

If you cast your mind back to when we first talked about doing a session at the
Congress, the idea was to get people who were coming to the Congress anyway
together to discuss Celtic Language Technologies. So if you are coming to the
Congress, or know of someone who is coming and interested in Celtic Language
Technologies, please let them know about our session.

We do have some speakers lined up - just to say what they are working on now,
and what they'd like to do in future. Otherwise it's an open discussion, and
this is where I'd like help from all the group.

If you're not coming yourself, do you have any questions you would like us to
discuss? Or comments (even provocative ones!) that we could read out to
stimulate discussion? Especially about future direction, and priorities for
future research.

We will be writing up a document from the session, and it would be good if we
could then include contributions from the wider group.

Please reply in this email thread so that we can gather some questions and
comments.

Oh, and anyone who is around, there'll be wine and cheese at our house on the
Thursday evening (63 Upper Garth Road - half way between the university and
Bngor Pier) - please come if you're here 🙂.

Delyth

Mae croeso i chi gysylltu gyda'r Brifysgol yn Gymraeg neu Saesneg

You are welcome to contact the University in Welsh or English

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neu unrhyw atodiadau yn rhydd rhag firysau neu 100% yn ddiogel. Oni bai fod hyn
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References:
- [celtic-language-tech] Round table at the Celtic Congress
  - From: Delyth Prys
- [celtic-language-tech] Re: Round table at the Celtic Congress
  - From: Colin Batchelor
- [celtic-language-tech] ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress
  - From: Delyth Prys
- [celtic-language-tech] ATB/RE: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress
  - From: Delyth Prys

[celtic-language-tech] ATB/RE: ATB/RE: ATB/RE: Round table at the Celtic Congress

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