[cablewiki] Re: Newsletter #1
- From: tingalingaling@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: cablewiki@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 07:55:21 +0000
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Hi Robert,
The table and dropdown I'm referring to is here:
http://cablegatewiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
Did you take a look at the example of Extension:Translate in my
previous email? The issue with copying over the text from one page
to another is that there is no easy way of tracking which cables
have been translated, or how complete a translation is. You'll see
that Extension:Translate allows all of this plus a whole lot more
(for example it gives the reader a Google Translate copy of the
translation to help them translate).
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate
Using Extension:Translate may also make it possible to use the
Citation Generator (http://cablegatewiki.org/cite/get/08MADRID1351)
with different languages, as the text markup would be stored in the
database.
However, the Template:Languages approach works great on the
Analysis pages, and it would be easy to create a search box to
search for all analysis of a specific language.
I also don't find changing to a non-fixed width lowercase text to
be very readable. Firstly, it would require manually changing every
cable to capitalise names, organisations etc. Secondly, while
Courier New may look uglier, it's actually more readable.
Compare this: http://cablegatewiki.org/cite/get/08MADRID1351
to this: http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=00HARARE6677
I'm installing Extension:Translate to test it, and when I get it
working I'll FTP my site to a test location and send you login
details.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:06:37 +0000 Robert McLeod
<hamstar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>Got some great ideas coming out. Here's some things I mocked up
>that I
>would like to draw your attention to. Not sure if this is how we
>want to do
>it but I envisioned having an Analysis:CABLEID page for each cable
>and
>language.
>
>If you look at
>00HARARE6677<http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=00HARARE6677>and
>00HARARE6677/de
><http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=00HARARE6677/de> you
>will see at the top the template
>Analysis<http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=Template:Analysis>and
>
>Analysis/de
><http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=Template:Analysis/de>.
>They provide a link to to
>Analysis:00HARARE6677<http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=Analysis
>:00HARARE6677>and
>Analysis:00HARARE6677/de<http://cablewiki.net/index.php?title=Analy
>sis:00HARARE6677/de>
>.
>
>Once we have this part sorted out I can make a bot to create all
>the
>required pages. Even empty pages (apart from subheadings) so
>people can
>just click the edit button on a subheading and type stuff.
>
>We will also need to get help from people versed in both English
>and {other
>language} as reviewers able to lock the cables {other language}
>page once
>they are satisfied with the translation. As already stated the
>english page
>should be locked - but I reckon we should lock it after its been
>formatted
>to an acceptable standard (i.e. not in all caps, correct
>subheadings, layout
>etc etc) which 00HARARE6677 is not lol.
>
>Also tingalingaling which table from your site do you speak of?
>
>I think everything has been good ideas so far :)
>
>I'm back at work full time on the 10th but weekends I work
>nightshift so
>will be able to work on stuff then since theres not much work to
>do at
>nights and will be awake at the same time as you people on the
>other side of
>the world.
>
>Cheers,
>Robert/translucent
>
>On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 6:05 PM, <tingalingaling@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
>
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>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I run cablegatewiki.org.
>>
>> The translating section may be easier than I thought. There is
>an
>> extension for Mediawiki called Translate that does everything we
>> need: Here is an example -
>>
>http://userbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALanguageStats&cod
>e
>>
>=es<http://userbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALanguageStats
>&code%0A=es>
>>
>> The analysis section of the site could use all the code from my
>> site.
>>
>> As I see it, here's what needs to be done before launch:
>>
>> * Get the CableBot to create pages for each cable both analysis
>and
>> translation (separate namespaces). Protect the English version
>of
>> the cable to stop it from being edited.
>> * Configure the MW Babel and Translate plugins (no programming
>> skills required).
>> * Copy the existing translations and summaries from both sites
>to
>> the new site.
>> * Modify the table on my site to work with the new site.
>>
>> Tomorrow I'm going to set up everything that's on
>cablegatewiki.org
>> on github so that any programmers can work on it.
>>
>> I will also set up a private wiki on cablegatewiki.org for the
>new
>> site, so that non-programmers can start adding content to it.
>>
>> I think with a few people we could put the site together in less
>> than a week.
>>
>> Did you add Translucent to the mailing list?
>>
>> P.S. I got a gmail address, can you add futuremelt@xxxxxxxxx to
>the
>> list?
>>
>> On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 01:13:36 +0000 cbr <espejosvivos@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >Hi Jay, and everyone else!
>> >
>> >Wow, all this you tell us sound great! To create a unique site
>> >that
>> >put togethers the best things of all these sites (cablewiki,
>> >cablegatewiki, cablegategame and kabelsearch).. would be just
>> >incredible!
>> >
>> >But you are right when you say that this is a really huge work,
>> >and
>> >definitively there have to be a good number of people involved
>in
>> >it.
>> >But, I think that can't be a problem! We just need to spread
>the
>> >word.
>> >In twitter, irc, and all the places that have emerged in the
>last
>> >month, dedicated to wikileaks or anonymous operations... there
>> >hare
>> >hundreds of them and of people behind them, and aporting
>material
>> >to
>> >them everyday... And what that means, is that there are really
>a
>> >lot
>> >of people willing to make things, and doing them, inverting
>their
>> >time
>> >to do usefull things related with all of that, so if you give
>them
>> >such a great project as this one, I'm sure they will be more
>than
>> >happy to contribute. So, I think that first thing, must be to
>> >spread
>> >the info about this project as much as we can!
>> >
>> >About my own personal possibilites to contribute, I
>unfortunately
>> >I
>> >have no abilities as a programmer, so I can't help very much
>with
>> >the
>> >tougher part of the merge of the sites.. but I can help with
>any
>> >other
>> >thing needed, that I'm sure will be plenty. In the other hand,
>I'm
>> >within a spanish collective where there a lot of be people I'm
>> >sure
>> >will want to help, and most of them are really good
>programmers,
>> >so I
>> >will tell them.
>> >
>> >In any case, some concrete ideas? As I have said, I think that
>the
>> >first is to recruit the maximum number of people, and to know
>how
>> >many
>> >we are before starting the hard work. So I would say, twitter,
>an
>> >irc
>> >channel, maybe a poster to post it in several places,... don't
>> >know,
>> >things like those.
>> >
>> >..I have not understand very well what you said about the
>mailing
>> >list... I don't know if I am in it or no..¿?. In any case, if I
>am
>> >not, I would really like to, to follow and participate in the
>> >discussions and the organization of the project.
>> >
>> >Cheers!
>> >Carlos.
>> >
>> >
>> >2011/1/2 <admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Folks,
>> >>
>> >> To those whom I haven't spoken to since last Year, happy
>2011!
>> >>
>> >> Now, a few words about this mailing list. I've created this
>> >because I'm
>> >> starting to get overstrained with communicating over hundreds
>of
>> >different
>> >> chanels: Twitter, IRC, Email, Discussion Page, Instant
>> >Messaging,... Problem
>> >> was, that wherever I tried to communicate something, there
>was
>> >always
>> >> someone who didn't get the message. So I've dugg out this
>> >antique invention
>> >> form the last millenium called mailinglist. I've personally
>> >never liked
>> >> them, because discussions tend to get out of hand very fast.
>So
>> >I urge you
>> >> to stay on topic and keep it short. But I hope this will
>finally
>> >create an
>> >> organized community. Some of you may receive this as a
>regular
>> >email. This
>> >> is because I didn't want to put you on the mailinglist
>without
>> >asking you
>> >> beforehand. So if you want to get updates on CableWiki and
>want
>> >to
>> >> participate in the discussion, please drop me a note at
>> >admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >> So I think it's best to provide you with a little update on
>the
>> >latest
>> >> developpments:
>> >>
>> >> # Translucent (hamstar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has managed to upload
>a
>> >complete
>> >> archieve of the released Cables using LeekFead.com and his
>> >wikibot
>> >> "CableBot". Now we have an entire database with cables,
>> >structured and even
>> >> tagged.
>> >>
>> >> # We've arranged several cooperations/mergers:
>> >>
>> >> ## KabelKearch.org: The guy behind this project wants to
>create
>> >an open
>> >> database with separated content, summaries, tags, origins,
>> >dates, etc. It is
>> >> planned that we will create a united database and do cross
>> >linking.
>> >> Translucent is currently working on the integration.
>> >>
>> >> ## CablegateGame.com: Cable Game is a crowdsourcing effort to
>> >tag and
>> >> summarize the cables utilizing game elements like a
>leaderboard.
>> >Translucent
>> >> has talked to the creater and he's told us that we could use
>his
>> >database of
>> >> summaries. It's also in discussion whether we could also
>share
>> >our Tag
>> >> lists. They could supplement each other quite well, since our
>> >taggs are
>> >> created from the TAGS provided by the cables itself, whereas
>the
>> >Tags at
>> >> Cable Game are user submitted.
>> >>
>> >> ## CablegateWiki.org: Is a project quite similar to ours, but
>> >started one
>> >> week later than we and is a bit smaller in user numbers. But
>> >they have
>> >> created a very good rating system and a quite useful browsing
>> >table with
>> >> dropdown menues. They have also a better social network
>> >integration than we.
>> >> I've asked the founder of cablegatewiki to contribute to our
>> >project. Here's
>> >> his (shortened) response:
>> >>
>> >> <cablegatewiki>
>> >> Hi JayP,
>> >>
>> >> I won't have much time to manage the site. Therefore, I'd
>> >> like to merge our sites together and redirect
>ablegatewiki.org
>> >to your site.
>> >> I am happy to send you code for what I've done, once I've
>tidied
>> >it up and
>> >> checked it for security. This includes:
>> >>
>> >> * The citation generator
>> >> * The dropdown search and Tablegate parser
>> >> * Automatic cable updates from Leakfeed to the database.
>> >> * Automatic page generation of new cables from the database
>> >> * User rating bar (modified version of W4G Rating Bar
>extension)
>> >> * The Twitter widget
>> >> * Facebook/Twitter "like" buttons
>> >> * Extension that gets your site logo and title to show up
>> >correctly when
>> >> pasted on Facebook/Digg/Reddit
>> >>
>> >> There are also some existing Mediawiki plugins I am using
>which
>> >I found
>> >> useful:
>> >> * Extension:Terminology
>> >> * Extension:Recaptcha (I have fixed the bugs that stop it
>> >working on MW
>> >> 0.16)
>> >> * Extension:Cite (for references)
>> >>
>> >> He's also said some interesting things about how to improve
>> >cablewiki. It
>> >> started as a discussion about whether to have
>> >> translation/summary/analasys/cable in one article or to
>separate
>> >it:
>> >>
>> >> * "Information Overload": Simply put, if there is too much
>> >> information on a website that a user does not want to read,
>they
>> >are not
>> >> likely to keep visiting or contributing. People visit the
>site,
>> >not just to
>> >> contribute, but to find information that interests them.
>> >> * Status: Users are competitive. "Points" systems work on
>sites
>> >like
>> >> digg/reddit/stackoverflow etc. I want to put a widget on the
>> >main page that
>> >> shows the number of edits a user has made each week.
>> >> * Showing activity: The main page should show not just what
>the
>> >site is
>> >> about, but also what is happening. New content has to be
>> >*visible* to keep
>> >> users interest. I plan to write an extension that shows the
>> >recent "quality
>> >> changes" (in my case Needs Attention/OK/Good Quality) on the
>> >site.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Translation Problem
>> >> =======================
>> >> I go to your site to look for summaries and analysis, but
>most
>> >of the cables
>> >> contain just the contents of the cable, which is
>> >> frustrating. This is a typical "information overload" issue,
>I
>> >> can't find information I want in the mass of data. I
>understand
>> >that you
>> >> need the text on the page for the translation, and I have a
>> >proposed
>> >> solution: The "translation" and "analysis" sections of the
>> >website need to
>> >> be separated.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know if you noticed the "citation generator" on my
>site,
>> >that lets
>> >> you link directly to highlighted parts of the cable. It works
>> >great for
>> >> summary and analysis, but obviously not for translation.
>> >>
>> >> Have two main areas of the site, one for "analysis" and one
>for
>> >> "translation", with links off the main page. The "analysis"
>side
>> >would be
>> >> laid out like cablegatewiki.org.
>> >>
>> >> The translation side would work as follows: Take a look at
>this:
>> >>
>>
>>http://www.wikileakswiki.org/index.php?title=09MADRID673&action=fo
>r
>> >medit.
>> >>
>> >> That's the Semantic Mediawiki plugin that lets you edit pages
>> >> using forms. Imagine when editing a translation, if each
>> >paragraph of the
>> >> cable could be shown above a text field, so instead of users
>> >having to copy
>> >> over cables and translate all at once (which is messy), they
>> >could just
>> >> translate paragraphs as they want. This would also let users
>> >filter
>> >> translations by how many paragraphs have been translated etc.
>> >and then the
>> >> cable could be shown right beside the translation on the wiki
>> >page
>> >> (something like this:
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhr%C3%A1n_na_bhFiann#Verses).
>> >>
>> >> I am happy to start developing the translation plugin but it
>> >would take a
>> >> few weeks because I will be busy.
>> >>
>> >> I don't recommend merging the Context and Impact sections.
>> >> "Context" gives the user some background information that
>helps
>> >them to
>> >> understand the content of the cable. "Impact" contains all
>the
>> >juicy details
>> >> of the cable, the stuff people want to read if they're just
>> >browsing through
>> >> the site.
>> >>
>> >> In response to your questions: The cable database is on the
>same
>> >server, and
>> >> synchronises from Leakfeed.com. The Infobox, Tablegate, and
>> >Dropdown
>> >> extensions all use this database to filter, browse and
>> >categorise cables. By
>> >> keeping this information in the database instead of on the
>wiki,
>> >it prevents
>> >> the source material being vandalised and takes off a load of
>> >work. I am
>> >> hosted on GoDaddy.
>> >>
>> >> [...]
>> >>
>> >> If you want to do this, I could redirect my site to yours,
>and
>> >you put up a
>> >> notice on the front page saying we are all developing a new
>> >system together
>> >> (CableWiki, CablegateWiki & Kablesearch). We would then use
>my
>> >hosting to
>> >> develop the new system and launch it on cablewiki.org when
>we're
>> >ready.
>> >> </cablegatewiki>
>> >>
>> >> I think those are some very good ideas. The problem is, I
>have
>> >neither the
>> >> time nor the nowledge to do this with the current ammount of
>> >support comming
>> >> from the community. I've spent a lot of time in this project
>and
>> >I hoped
>> >> that it would encourage others to do so, too. This worked in
>the
>> >first few
>> >> days but now the support has slowed down. I've put my heart
>and
>> >soul into
>> >> cablewiki and I would love to see the site grow, but I have
>> >other things to
>> >> do, too.
>> >> So I hope some of you will volunteer to help us with a
>merger.
>> >Otherwise I
>> >> will have to leave the site as it is. But if enough people
>would
>> >contribute,
>> >> we'd have the chance to create a new system on our own
>server,
>> >so we'd have
>> >> much more possibilities than now. I think we could create
>> >something really
>> >> powerful.
>> >> So, what do you think of it?
>> >>
>> >> Cheerio,
>> >>
>> >> JayP
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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