One thing that I am not understanding in this discussion if the difference between playing a bird tape and "pishing and squeaking". Both are used to draw a bird into the open so it can be seen. I do understand that playing a bird tape can cause a bird to display aggressive behavior but I also feel that "pishing", squeaking, and owl vocalizations cause the same response as a bird tape. Birders have used the above techniques for years to get "looks" at birds. I was taught in an ornithology class that pishing, squeaking, and owl vocalizations were proper birding techniques. I recall a quote that "birders pish their lives away". On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:54:45 -0400 Jack Litz <wjlitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Visual identification is nice but a bird's call can and, in this case, has been used for idenfication and establishment of the time, place, habitat, and other orthinological parameters. What good are behaviorial observations manipulated by the observer, outside of a research context? The information is potentially scientifically useful only if dissiminated and incorporated into a credible and accessable database of some kind. Where will this data ultimately reside, interesting though it may briefly be, other than in a personal bird list and a lot of "deleted" e-mail folders? Sorry to appear argumentative but the issue did come up. I believe it better to sit back, watch and listen, and let the birds do their thing without interference. Sometimes you see them and sometimes you only hear them. Those are the breaks of birding. I won't be drawn into any arguments about feeders and "baiting". Jack Litz ----- Original Message ----- From: <sawwhet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: [bristol-birds] Re: Kirtland's Warbler > I also agree that most general birding does not qualify as research. But in the field of ornithology and especially considering such a rare species any sightings, records, behavior observations...etc. qualifies as valuable scientific information. > > Greg Harris > Environmental Specialist > Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation > Nashville, Tennessee > > On Fri, 10 May 2002 14:15:16 -0400 Jack Litz <wjlitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Most general birding hardly qualifies as research. I tend to favor leaving > the birds alone unless you "pish and squeek" to get a bird just to stick its > head up for an instant. I have asked Cornell to provide their take on use > of recorded calls for general birding and also for their research > guidelines. . > > Jack Litz > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <sawwhet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:05 PM > Subject: [bristol-birds] Re: Kirtland's Warbler > > > > > > But on the other hand in the case of a Kirkland's warbler, it seems to me > we want to have a definite confirmation of its identity and detailed > information on its location and the duration of its stay. Since there was > no "sighting" maybe the gentleman's playing the recorded call was > appropriate to get a visual confirmation. Would "pishing and squeaking" > also cause the same distress to the birds? > > > > Greg Harris > > Environmental Specialist > > Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation > > Nashville, Tennessee > > On Fri, 10 May 2002 13:56:51 -0400 Jack Litz <wjlitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > I tend to agree with Marion. Small migratory birds have enough to do > > without having to expend energy and time on potential mates or territorial > > threats that arn't there. Predator calls can also be disruptive. When > > playing or making bird calls interrupts important activities, stresses the > > birds, or causes them to misallocate critical energy reserves, it could > > come under the catagory of "harassing wildlife" which is against the law > > some places. > > > > Seems like playing or making bird calls should have a legitimate place in > > birding though. Has anyone seen any guidelines on this? I'll check with > > the folks at Cornell to see if they have come to grips with this issue. > No > > artificial bird calls during breeding season seems like a good start. > > > > Jack Litz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marion Finucane" <marion@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > To: <bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:31 PM > > Subject: [bristol-birds] Re: Kirtland's Warbler > > > > > > > > > > Is it ethical to play recordings of bird songs particularly during > > breeding > > > season? > > > My father frowned upon this practice. He preferred listening to > > > interferring. > > > > > > Marion Finucane > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: bristol-birds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:bristol-birds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Richard Peake > > > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 11:17 AM > > > To: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [bristol-birds] Kirtland's Warbler > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone interested: > > > I tried to find the Kirtland's Warbler again between 9:30 and 10:30. > It > > > did not sing again despite my playing many Kirtland's songs. I'll try > > again > > > tomorrow. > > > Dick Peake > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST > > > > > > This is a regional birding list sponsored by the > > > Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications > > > between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia > > > and Northeast Tennessee. 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It serves the Russell County > > > Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS > > > Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature > > > Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, > > > Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. > > > To post to this mailing list, simply send an email > > > to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send > > > an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > > > the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > Wallace Coffey, Moderator > > > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx > > > (423)764-3958 > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST > > > > This is a regional birding list sponsored by the > > Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications > > between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia > > and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County > > Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS > > Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature > > Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, > > Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. > > To post to this mailing list, simply send an email > > to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send > > an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > > the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Wallace Coffey, Moderator > > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx > > (423)764-3958 > > > > ************************************************* > > BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST > > > > This is a regional birding list sponsored by the > > Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications > > between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia > > and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County > > Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS > > Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature > > Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, > > Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. > > To post to this mailing list, simply send an email > > to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send > > an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > > the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Wallace Coffey, Moderator > > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx > > (423)764-3958 > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST > > This is a regional birding list sponsored by the > Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications > between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia > and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County > Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS > Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature > Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, > Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. > -------------------------------------------------- > You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. > To post to this mailing list, simply send an email > to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send > an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > -------------------------------------------------- > Wallace Coffey, Moderator > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx > (423)764-3958 > > ************************************************* > BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST > > This is a regional birding list sponsored by the > Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications > between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia > and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County > Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS > Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature > Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, > Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. > -------------------------------------------------- > You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. > To post to this mailing list, simply send an email > to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send > an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with > the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > -------------------------------------------------- > Wallace Coffey, Moderator > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx > (423)764-3958 > > > ************************************************* BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST This is a regional birding list sponsored by the Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. -------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. To post to this mailing list, simply send an email to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. -------------------------------------------------- Wallace Coffey, Moderator jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423)764-3958 ************************************************* BRISTOL BIRDS NET LIST This is a regional birding list sponsored by the Bristol Bird Club to facilitate communications between birders and bird clubs of Southwest Virginia and Northeast Tennessee. It serves the Russell County Bird Club, Herndon Chapter TOS, Greeneville TOS Chapter, Blue Ridge Birders Club, Butternut Nature Club, Buchanan County Bird Club, Bristol Bird Club, Clinch Valley Bird Club and Cumberland Nature Club. -------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to Bristol-Birds. To post to this mailing list, simply send an email to: bristol-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, send an email to bristol-birds-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the one word 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. -------------------------------------------------- Wallace Coffey, Moderator jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423)764-3958