Kindly remove my address from your mailing list ________________________________ From: botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tony reumerman Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:44 PM To: botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [botswanapredatorforum] Re: [botswanapredatorforum]: Report on Setata Fence Hi Christiaan Thanks for the figures, all pretty comprehensive and quite interesting. Are ther any figures available for 2007-2008? Regards Tony tau <tau@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Tony Availability of info is a big need that we do not always realise. Botswana has far more information available than most countries. I attached a word file with the summary for lions. It gives a clear indication of the type of data, and where we did not have data, the assumptions we made to have an estimate. The situation that Pete is describing in Tuli is a small, vulnerable population with a high impact from PAC and hunting. Unlike Khutse,it is not a corner bit of a larger population. Specific measures are needed here to ensure the survival of this population. Unfortunately a trophy hunting ban in Botswana will not contribute to solving the cross border hunting issue in Tuli. A concern I have is that Gareth Patterson introduced lions from east Africa into the population, mixing gene pools. There is also the risk that he introduced with these lions some of the east African strains of FIV that did not occur in southern Africa. Some of the problem Tuli lions have been relocated to the Central Kalahari..... Regards Christiaan ________________________________ From: botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tony reumerman Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:13 PM To: botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [botswanapredatorforum] Re: [botswanapredatorforum]: Report on Setata Fence Hi Christiaan Good chatting to you yesterday To clarify my comment on the forum: I made the statement that the satus of the present lion population has been "negelected" To clarify. At present, there are a lot of discussions and arguments going back and forth, but nowhere, especially in the public forum are current large mammal populations published or presented. Before anything can be effectively conserved, whether it be a piece of land, a species or an ecosystem, it needs to be quantified. At the meeting to review current legislation pertaining to the Conservation on the 17th of December last year, I brought up this point and no one could tell the delegates how may lions are in this country!, not even a thumb suck! The same applied to Lechwe and Impala!! What is the present population?, what is the distribution of these animals? and especially what are the trends of each group or pride and the population as a whole? Until we have spot on figures from a credible source or sources, I believe that only then will we be able to prioritise our discussions and actions pertaining to the confronation with livestock farmers and the integrity of the species. Cheers Tony tau <tau@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear Pete I agree with what you are saying about hunting: I would also think that if a hunter and his client sees a big male, and he has only 1 lion on quota, he is going to take the best one he gets whether it is a pride male or not. Now, taking 1 male out of a pride can possibly cause the coalition to be vulnerable for a take-over, and this is a problem if your population is already disrupted, like in your area. The DWNP lion hunt guidelines states one may not shoot a male that is with a pride, which is interpreted that if the male is physically seen with a pride, he may not be shot. I agree that it is impossible to know if a male seen alone is a pride male or not, besides, if he is not a pride male now, he can always still become one later. I, personally, feel that hunters should know their area and their lion population well enough to recognise at least the pride males that have small cubs or that are newly settled with a pride. All concession holders are supposed to do monitoring in their areas according to the management plans. Just for interest, I received an email from Dr. Andy Loveridge at WILDCru, Oxford, and who works in Hwange National Park: We still have a lion hunting ban around Hwange- and the population is recovering nicely, after being hard hit by hunting 1999-2004. We will probably reintroduce quotas in 2009 and hopefully also a rigorous monitoring effort. Kind regards Hanlie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 8:47 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 10:01 AM