[botswanapredatorforum] Re: Report on Setata Fence

  • From: Dereck Joubert <wildfilm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:25:45 +0200

Thanks Mark,
I understand this, and there is some new information for me. The south is
not really my area of expertise. However I think the point I was making was
that while non safari hunting of lions has been banned for some time
already, (which covers the case you describe of when someone cannot shoot
the animals he wants to get rid of he will trap, snare or poison it) but the
lifting or banning of safari hunting shouldn¹t effect that one way or
another because it doesn¹t change the status of that man or his quest. I was
referring to the recent banning (in response to Pete¹s question about if
this would increase the chances of vulture poisoning or not. I can¹t see how
it will if the guy who is about to poison presently cannot hunt legally.
Opening up lion hunting, unless it specifically targeted at
community/conflict areas isn¹t going to do anything for that same guy¹s
problem of livestock management
I think the case for hunting in cattle/conflct areas is a completely
different one, again IF the long term goal is to rid it of the predators for
example, then it makes good sense  to do it for profit. Opening hunting in
the Okavango, whatever those details may be, and they will be hotly debated
in time as they have in the past, UNLESS tagged to the livestock areas,
should have no upside effect on the poisoning activity, except in the
unlikely and well into the future eventuality that it hunting ban COULD lead
to a general  increase in lions nation wide. Of course there are a dozen
reasons why that won¹t happen, but back to the point. Will the recent ban on
safari hunting increase the frequency of lion poisoning? I don¹t see it.
But I would love to see data on this. It is worth the study and if I can be
of help in that research I will. We actually have someone who can pull any
data together if need be.
All the best
Dereck


On 9/2/08 07:50, "Mark Bing" <bing@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> If a farmer cannot shoot a Lion that is killing his cattle, he will poison a
> carcass that lion have killed and fed on, or place poisoned carcasses out for
> them to eat. This is the correlation between hunting ban and poisoning. It
> happens anyway, whether or not there is a ban, but possibly moreso when the
> animals cannot be shot that did the killing. Shooting or trapping a specific
> animal is obviously more of a targeted approach than poisoning carcasses. The
> worst poisoning of Vultures occured in the hyaenaveld last year when 30 white
> backed vultures were killed on a poisoned carcass meant for Lion, that was
> before the ban. I stress it seems only to be commercial farmowners responsible
> for poisoning, not communal smallscale farmers, who lack the transport and
> finance to procure poison in most cases. So, Poisoning and hunting ban are
> related, but a positive correlation between poisoning increase with a lion
> hunting ban will be difficult to prove as DWNP ignores freehold and fenced
> tribal farms in the main. This at the detriment of Vultures.
>  
> The ban affects the  professional hunters, but is not due to the sport hunting
> fraternity, rather it is due to the communal cattlepost farmers killing lion
> that kill their livestock. The  professional hunters being the most out of
> pocket here should try and work with community based organisations in the
> problem areas to target marauding cats that have become a problem due to our
> farming techniques.  they should also protect their industry from the other
> serious threat, that is smuggling of Lion cubs to the NW province. This
> practise is whittling away at their genetic resourses, and benefitting only a
> few.That way, some money could have gone back into the community in Kweneng
> last year, from hunting, instead of 46 lion dieing and no revenue gained.
> These cats shot by farmers in protecting their livestock. So far I have only
> heard complaints out of the hunting industry about the ban, but nothing
> positive done by the hunting fraternity to see why the ban was instituted and
> do something about it, ie put monies into education etc, visit the areas
> concerned, speak with local CBOs in these areas. The Hunting fraternity in
> Zimbabwe was very proactive, worked hand in hand with campfire, and looked
> into extending predator ranges in exchange for trophies in these areas. There
> were at least 10 funded phds on Sable horn size decline in Matetsi, Lion
> movements out of Hwange, Leopard territory size etc. Any trend in decreasing
> tropy sizes were studied and managed. Why does this not take place here??
> Any cattle owner according to sec 46 of the act can kill a lion if it is
> threatening his property. So, the largest number of lion shot in Botswana are
> by communal farmers, not by hunters. No hunters shoot cheetah, but farmers do.
> and so on.
>  
> Education is being offered, in bucket loads by CCB, and predator friendly beef
> is not far from a reality now, both of which aim to reduce the conflict
> between big cats and livestock. Tourism and hunting are also useful.  KCS also
> has an educational role to play.
> The advantage with hunting is that hunters dont care where they stay, will
> rough it, are easier to please, dont mind livestock in the envt where they are
> hunting and so on. So,the resourse base needed to develop hunting in a
> community is less than for photo tourism. Bear in mind that Batswana probably
> love cattle more than God. Every motswana wants a farm, so the areas
> surrounding the CKGR on all sides are now 6x6 farms. ( Too small to be
> commercially viable, but offering more people land than an 8x8 farm would have
> offered, which is what teh old cattle post system evolved on) From The Eastern
> boundary now to Khutse are now all fenced farms, and the predators dont have a
> buffer zone in most cases. Hullo conflict!!!!
> I agree, that in areas close to tourist routes eg outside Khutse, tourism
> should be implemented as a CBO, but Leoprd Ecology and Conservation is getting
> something off the ground there. Resourses though are limited, and you cant
> have a  hard nosed no livestock approach, as it wont work.
>  
> Above the FMD fences, in Chobe, Delta etc, tousism is easier, as people go
> there to see Botswanas biggest attractions, and most of that area is some sort
> of hunting area etc. And so it should be, as it is more valuable as a tourist
> destination. However, get off the Northern Sector, and we have fewer visitors.
> Khutse and S CKGR, are used mainly by Gaborone Residents, and tourism ( ask
> Khutse Lodge) is slow to take off in the South.
> I compare the buffer zone around Kruger NP in SA, that earns about 5BN rands a
> year in tourism, to Kweneng, which probaly earns P1m, in a good year. The
> potential is there, if people wanted it. They can have it if they thought
> about it too. But education and development of skills necessary to run tourist
> ventures lack here, and there is no political will by Batwana to change the
> status quo.
>  
> The CKGR is as follows, with my limited understanding. Lion move between
> Makadigadi, and CKGR, and Khutse, and across to Transfrontier park. The
> population is a single one, and passes over farmland ( conflict). The corridor
> between ckgr and transfrontier is being studied again at the moment by SI, to
> find out about game movements in this Zone. I dont think there are migrations
> left in this area, simply local movements of game in response to rainfall. eg
> There were Eland that came into the Werda Area in 2007, due to the drought,
> first time in 10 years. Local movt in response to drought. This area, Kang etc
> could be heavily exploited for tourism I am sure.
>  
> Everything mentioned above involves a mindset change, and education, both
> difficult to achieve.
>  
> I think that comments on your comments
>  
> MArk
>  
>  
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Dereck  Joubert <mailto:wildfilm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>  
>> To: botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>  
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:26  PM
>>  
>> Subject: [botswanapredatorforum] Re:  Report on Setata Fence
>>  
>> 
>> Hello Pete, Mark,
>> I don¹t ever understand the logic  behind and the knee jerk reaction to a
>> lion ban possibly increasing poisoning  in today¹s conditions. The people who
>> have been stopped from hunting recently  are the safari hunters and the
>> average ?poisoner¹ has not had access to lion  shooting for many years now.
>> If we add hunting in again, the same guys will  poison for the same reasons
>> they do now. In essence, man and in particular  livestock man, has limited
>> tolerance for things that eat livestock, and they  feel as though they can do
>> what they can about diseases...AND predators., so  they do. Reducing conflict
>> takes a major mind set change. Tourism does that  (good examples out of Duba
>> Vumbura etc) Hunting simply propagates the same old  mentality of ridding the
>> bush of predators (on a sliding scale of  effectiveness.) It is time, and
>> actually it has been happening fairly well, to  put effort behind education
>> and tourism initiatives that change that  perspective from ³use, fight,
>> resist, be a apart from  nature ² to  something more akin to becoming part of
>> it and seeking passive benefits, of  which there are many, from nature.
>> I believe that we  have two distinct issues. Hunting, and poisoning, and the
>> two are not related  now to any great degree.
>> I believe that the call for a hunting ban is a  response to the plight of all
>> big cats globally, (all are in serious decline)  and even if we take a small
>> hit ourselves, we need to think about the larger  picture, one of which is
>> the PR attached to Botswana¹s ban, which can ripple  on to many markets
>> across the world, as a message that we all have a problem.  It highlights the
>> issue and stirs action in countries that care less than we  do here.
>> I want to understand the  CKGR situation more though, and in  particular the
>> trade you mention Mark. That I am sure we can stop.
>> Also I  am in the field right now, and don¹t have the act with me, but what
>> is Section  46 please? I think we can work that as well if it is  the one
>> logjam you  elude to.
>> All the best
>> Dereck
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/2/08 14:00, "Mark Bing"  <bing@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>> Hi  Pete
>>> 
>>> My opinion is that it is not a bad interim idea, till something  else can be
>>> set in place that is a lot better than a total ban. It has its  place to
>>> place a breathing space till a better solution is found.
>>> The  problems are twofold as I see it. In Kweneng, one of the problem areas,
>>> there were 48 Lion shot in a 12 month period, and between April and July
>>> 2007, if I am not mistaken 12 were shot South of Khutse, including 3
>>> collared animals. Killing collared cats is not permitted, yet it goes on,
>>> sadly at the researchers expense. All Lion research in Khutse has ground to
>>> a halt, as on last count there were only about 6 lion left in the park,
>>> which affects tourism and so on. The problem is that the cattle posts around
>>> khutse, and indeed kaudwane Village is very close, so this is a high
>>> conflict area. In this case a resolution could be found i am sure from the
>>> Professional hunting community. I am sure that in 2 to 3 years time, the
>>> lion population may have recovered enough to hunt in Kweneng, and if a
>>> hunter came forward from their association and offered to hunt an animal or
>>> 2 in the area, and give the monies ( trophy fee)  to a local NGO in the
>>> area, for development, the area would be more tolerant to Lion. Some of this
>>> monies could go to compensation provided animals are herded and so on. I
>>> think the hunting community needs to be more proactive here.
>>> The second  problem is the fast rush of animals ( Cheetah and Lion Cubs),
>>> that are going  over the border to NW, from the Kalahari. Lionesses are
>>> shot, and cubs are  captured. I have seen a person at the clinic in Verda
>>> who came off second  best in moving a cub too large. This problem is
>>> complex, but is accounting  for a serious sink in the cat populations in
>>> some areas. This trade gives a  few individuals gains in the short term, but
>>> is not good long term for  Botswana. It is a serious threat to the
>>> Transkalahari corridor.
>>> I agree  with you that poisoning becomes a problem, but since 2007 there are
>>> much  more severe strict laws concerning use of poisons, so should anybody
>>> be  caught indescriminantly using them, they can get a lengthy jail term.
>>> Unfortunately again DWNP does not police areas outside their jurisdiction (
>>> ie wildlife areas), so, in Ghanzi and the hyaenaveld, probably the central
>>> range for breeding Lappets, poisons are used frequently, usually Temek. The
>>> bird club as you are aware has been debating the vulture poisoning issues,
>>> which we agree are serious, and we need to address the Ghanzi Farmers assn
>>> on this. I think there will be poisoning hotspots identified, Ghanzi,
>>> Hyaenaveld, Kweneng. And truthfully there has always been poison usage
>>> there. 
>>> Now if section 46 of the national parks act were revoked, the  DWNP could
>>> get a better conviction rate. BUT WEVE SPOKEN TILL WE ARE BLUE IN  THE FACE
>>> ON THIS ISSUE
>>> 
>>> Farmer  Education is central to the Lion Hunting ban, and the Poisoning of
>>> Endangered birds ( Vultures) in this case, as well as the cascade of Raptors
>>> like Tawnys, Bateleurs etc that get poisoned with them. There is a Rabies
>>> outbreak in some areas of the country at present. Rabies is disseminated
>>> amongst Jackal when they are shot on farms, or poisoned, and territories
>>> become available to fight over. On a farm where jackal are left, territories
>>> are stable and boundary demarkation is by scat and urine. There is very
>>> little fighting. Not so when Jackal are poisoned and shot. In Zimbabwe I had
>>> a pedigree Charolais breeder loose 9 bulls to rabies in one year, due to
>>> severe poisoning of Jackal on his farm. When he stopped teh practise the
>>> rabies slowly disappeared. This information is needed in Ghanzi, where
>>> jackel are always poisoned, and it is these poisonings that tend to kill
>>> lappets. 
>>> 
>>> I do not think many communal cattle post owners poison much, and  the
>>> Vulture will tell them when animals are dieing, so they can retrieve the
>>> meat.
>>> 
>>> These are just my opinions as usual. None of these issues are  easily
>>> resolved. DWNP needs to be more vigilant, but has little capacity,  and is
>>> not really interested in the farming areas. Farmers often dont want  to see
>>> long term implications to an action either. I dont think telling a  ghanzi
>>> Farmer that the Endangered cape Vultures he just poisoned came from
>>> Namibia, and the cape would mean much either. He loves his cows and will
>>> exterminate all threats.
>>> 
>>> Strangely  though, a farmer will vaccinate his cows for Botulism every year,
>>> and incur  a P4000 cost in doing so, and may still loose a few. These
>>> expenses and  losses are accepted. He may dip his herd through summer and
>>> incur a P50 000  cost. But he will accept losses  from gall sickness, as no
>>> system is  perfect. When it comes to losses from jackal though, he will not
>>> spend any  money, and will blast away at all jackals seen ( just like 4
>>> generations  before him have done). There will be no herder or guard dog, so
>>> no expenses  are incurred and the reaction to the jackal is greater than his
>>> reaction to  botulism. ( both in time and money) The fact that his
>>> management preference,  that is killing all jackal has not worked seems
>>> irrelevant. However, if a  farmer chooses not to dip his cows every year,
>>> and looses 10% of his herd a  year, and 20% due to udder problems, and keeps
>>> up like that for 4  generations, he would go bancrupt. He would change his
>>> management technique  to cope with the situation. Only wish farmers would
>>> see predators as part of  the picture with farming, like disease, and
>>> calving problems. Preventing  losses, rather than scattering poison and
>>> shooting and trapping will  work.
>>> 
>>> Hope this is useful Pete
>>> 
>>> MArk
>>> 
>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  
>>>> From:  birdlife <mailto:birdlifemaun@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>  
>>>> To: botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>  
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:32   AM
>>>>  
>>>> Subject: [botswanapredatorforum] Report   on Setata  Fence
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hi  Rebecca,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please could you send  me a copy of the  report on the proposed Setata
>>>> Fence. I am on asdl and so  shouldn¹t  have any problem receiving a 1.22MB
>>>> file with pics and maps. Thank   you for keeping us informed on this and
>>>> other   issues.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Does the Predator  Forum have a viewpoint on  the lion hunting ban? At
>>>> BirdLife, we are concerned  that the ban may  lead to increased poisoning
>>>> of predators and also vultures,  most of  which are globally threatened.
>>>> This happened following the previous   ban a few years ago. I know it is
>>>> not possible to keep everyone  happy all the  time, but would appreciate
>>>> your views on the issue so  that we know where you  stand.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Kind  regards
>>>> 
>>>> Pete
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From:   botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]  On Behalf Of David
>>>> Mosugelo
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04,  2008 2:13  PM
>>>> To:   botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject:  [botswanapredatorforum] Re: Fw:  Report on Setata  Fence
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello  Rebecca
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Happy New Year! Could  you please send me a  copy with maps! I¹d be very
>>>> greatful.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From:   botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:botswanapredatorforum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]  On Behalf Of Rebecca
>>>> Klein
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30,  2008 11:55  AM
>>>> To:   botswanapredatorforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject:  [botswanapredatorforum] Fw:  Report on Setata Fence
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Dear all, 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Happy New Year!
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Ive been asked to circulate this  report on  the proposed Setata Fence to
>>>> the Predator Forum.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> All pictures have been removed due  to size.  If you would like a copy of
>>>> the document with maps send me an email   and I'll send onto you. It is
>>>> 1.22MB in total.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> This development is of great  concern and we  would welcome any comments!
>>>> Please forward to anyone who may  benefit  from this information.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes for  2008.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Rebecca
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Cheetah Conservation  Botswana
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
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>> 20:30
> 


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