Gary, your post impelled me to look upen-dash online and I learned some interesting things.: according to one source, en dashes are used to connect compound words -- which would mean tha hyphens are only used to separate syllables at the ends of sentences. I know I've called dashes dashes but I didn't think they were actually different from hyphens -- I thought the difference was in the use. According to another soure, en dashes are used for numerical ranges, e.g. 6 -10. The first source says en dashes are used to connect other things, too, like pages. I've always just gone to the dash, or maybe it's a hyphen, on my keyboard, though I do have an en dash, as well as an em dash, in my symbols in my insert file. Maybe I'll start using that instead of what may actually be a hyphen on my keyboard -- though it's more trouble. If it isn't noticeable,maybe I'll stick to using what's on my keyboard. I've pasted the two sources to which I refer and their URLs below. Cindy We use the n-dash for numerical ranges, as in "6-10 years." When we need a dash as a form of parenthetical punctuation in a sentence--as I have been using it rather freely already in this article--we use the m-dash. http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/dash.html En dash The en dash (?) is one en in width: the width of the capital N in any particular font. The en dash is by definition exactly half the width of an em dash. It is used to indicate a closed range, or a connection between two things of almost any kind: numbers, people, places, etc.. Examples: * June?July 1967 * 1:00?2:00 p.m. * For ages 3?5 * pp. 38?55. * New York?London flight You would also use an en dash when you have a compound adjective, one part of which consists of two words or a hyphenated word: * pre?World War II period * high-priority?high-pressure tasks (tasks which are both high-priority and high-pressure). http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/N%20dash --- Gary Petraccaro <garyp130@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Not quite true (assuming I understand you right). > An n-dash is the kind of > dash in n-dash, or on-line. The m-dash is the kind > of dash that signifies > such things as interrupted speech, or a thought with > some kind of > modification within it. Then, of course, there was > the book I did with HUGE > dashes, so long that the ocr refused to recognize > them as anything but junk. > These were several characters in width. Only one > book like that that I've > ever come across, thank God. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:52 AM > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Ellipses and > em-dashes > > > > No, Shannon, that is a good question. I see that > Guido > > explained that an em dash is a longer dash the > size of > > the letter em in type. The en dash is longer than > a > > hyphen but shorter than the em dash. It isn't used > > frequently and I probably shouldn't have mentioned > it > > at all, except I did use it in one book where the > > author had used it. It's so hard to see the > difference > > that I had to place it next to a hyphen, or short > > dash, to see which it was and if it had to be > > corrected. (It's in my symbols to be inserted, not > a > > keystroke). I don't know how it would feel in > Braille > > or how a reader reads it. And I just found, by > trying > > to put all three in this letter, that it depends > on > > what font is being used whether one can tell the > > difference between a hyphen-type dash and an en > dash. > > I could tell the difference in my Word document > but > > not in this letter, so I stopped trying to put in > > examples. > > > > Cindy > > > > > > > > shannon work <shannon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > >> Cindy, > >> > >> I am not trying to split hairs but just need a > >> little clarification on > >> something. > >> > >> In the post you made, wich I left atached, you > >> make mention of something > >> called an en dash, and an m dash. > >> Is this something different or was that a typo? > >> Like I said not trying to split hairs but I just > >> learned about the M dash > >> and this EN dash has me a little confused. > >> > >> I'm sorry, and apologise if I am pestering but, I > am > >> lost and never was much > >> good at punctuation. > >> > >> Thanks for the time, > >> Shannon > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:27 PM > >> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Ellipses and > em-dashes > >> > >> > >> > I'm glad I read more posts before explaining > the > >> > difference between ellipses and em dashes. > Guido > >> did a > >> > very good job. I'd just like to add a little > more > >> to > >> > his explanation -- but before I do, Guido -- > the > >> em > >> > dash isn't retained in txt. I'm validating this > in > >> > Word in larger font, so I can see it better, > but I > >> did > >> > what someone suggested and closed and saved it > in > >> the > >> > original txt to see what formatting was kept. > The > >> em > >> > dashes, line breaks, and italics all were lost. > So > >> I'm > >> > following the same person's suggestion (Kellie > or > >> > Jana, I think) and using a doulbe hyphen,with a > >> space > >> > on either side. > >> > > >> > Ellipses are used, as the original poster (Was > it > >> > Dave?) said, to show that something has been > >> > eliminated from a quotation. They can also be > >> used to > >> > show that a sentence is unfinished, as opposed > to > >> > being interrupted. I don't have any examples of > >> that > >> > in the book I'm doing now, but . . . > >> > > >> > O.K. That was one. I couldn't think of how to > >> finish > >> > the sentence, so I used ellipses. Here's > another: > >> As > >> > Mary came downstairs, John said, "Maybe tonight > we > >> > could . . . " His voice trailed off as he saw > the > >> man > >> > behind her." > >> > > >> > As Guido said, an em dash is a long dash, used > to > >> > interrupt a sentence with a different thought, > >> > parenthetical or xplanatory but not necessarily > >> strong > >> > enough to be in parentheses. Here is an example > >> from > >> > the book I;m validating: "She gave a tiny laugh > >> (em > >> > dash) a nervous one, he thought (em dash) when > it > >> > took a minute for their strides to coordinate . > . > >> ." > >> > (Here the ellipsis is because I'm not finishing > >> the > >> > sentence). Another examaple: "Daph (em dash)" > >> > Another person interrupts: "I know." Here the > em > >> dash > >> > shows that the person who was speaking was > >> interrupted > >> > rather than that he lost his train of thought. > >> > > >> > I admit that since en dashes are used so > rarely, I > >> > can't think at the moment of why one would be > used > >> > instead of an em-dash except for poetic effect, > >> which > >> > is why I think it was used in Silk. > >> > > >> > I hope this explanation isn't too long-winded > or > >> > doesn't repeat anything anyone has already > written > >> > that I haven't yet seen. And that it clarifies > the > >> > differences. As Guido says, and as you all > know, a > >> > hyphen connects compound words or breaks words > at > >> ends > >> > of sentences when they don't fit on a line. But > >> those > >> > we close. Unfortunately, sometimes, as with the > >> book > >> > I've validating, scanners, and maybe > validators, > >> sue a > >> > global replace to eliminate all hyphens and > that > >> > results in their being eliminated where they > >> sometimes > >> > belong. > >> > > >> > Cindy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________ > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > >> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > >> > http://vote.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com