Hi, Evan, since it appears you are a mover and shaker in the SF book club, how do you all decide what to read? I have a friend who got out of a book club because she didn't care for the choices other members selected, and she didn't wish to read them. Do you draw lots or vote? Regards, Kim Friedman. _____ From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:28 AM To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Ideas Versus Characterization I put this in my Drafts folder, intending to finish it later, and nearly forgot about it. I didn't like The Unreasoning Mask as much as some others at the club did. It wasn't terrible, but not really all that great either. I thought the writing was a bit clunky. More importantly, this is a story that could have used better characterization because, while Farmer had some interesting ideas, they were not developed enough to carry the story without good characterization. A story needs *something* in my view, good ideas, plot, setting, characters--to make it work, or a combination of those. So, as in the case of The Unreasoning Mask, if the plot is rather murky, the ideas are not well developed, and the writing does not really bring the settings alive very well, memorable characters would have balanced things out and made it a much better story. But, since the writing wasn't all that great, in my opinion, perhaps it might not have made a whole lot of difference if he had attempted to create more rounded characters. Now Childhood's End had a story to tell--a big story. It was a story about the human race as a whole, and the tragedy of another race. (I will say no more in case you or others might want to read it someday. In my view, it did not need good characterization to make it a classic. The writing was much better for one thing, but Clarke focused on the main idea and brought it to full flowering skillfully. The theme of that book was human transcendence, which is a theme that is very close to my heart; so I admit that I am a bit biased on this matter. I'm not sure what the theme of The Unreasoning Mask was. The Stross stories also had a strong theme of transcendence--one that is much closer to likelihood in my view, so I was very interested in how he developed his vision of a possible human future. I thought the writing was pretty good in those as well. However, it was a bit technical. There is in fact a technical reference guide to the Accelerando stories that you can get on Wikipedia. I don't know if that was a source of some of the problems for you, but it may have been. Just to show that I do like novels with good characterization, God Emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert is a prime example. The story is really a study of one character. The central idea, why the main character is still around at the time of the story, is one I have doubts about. But it doesn't matter to me very much. The novel is about the character, not about ideas. Of course, the nature of the character makes it one that the author could never fully succeed at portraying. But the ambition is phenomenal; and the fact that he succeeded as well as he did is quite a marvel. And he did it well enough, for me at least, that he created a fascinating and memorable character. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim <mailto:kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> Friedman To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:35 AM Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, Thursday, October 8, 2009 Hi, Evan, many thanks for the information. I started appreciating SF because of a radio show called "Hour 25" on a Pacifica station. There would be author interviews, readings of short stories, talk about films, and it covered mainly SF, but I heard about horror fiction, some fantasy fiction, and comic books. Some of the authors who were guests on the program were Marion Zimmer Bradley, David Gerrold, Octavia E. Butler, Frederick Pohl, Anne McCaffrey, Diane Duane, etc. I got to liking SF more, so I got The Caves of Steel by Asimov. The only comment I can make about what you said is that tastes vary. What authors might suit me may not be interesting to you. I have The Unreasoning Mask and will read it. Regards, Kim. _____ From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:48 AM To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, Thursday, October 8, 2009 Yes, you can go to www.accessibleworld.org and there is a link to the Book Nook on the home page. I thought those Stross stories were great. But I'm not as much of a character person as most people, it would seem. Not that I don't like good characters, but I don't think a story has to have great characters for me to enjoy it. Some of the greatest SF classics are not about characters. Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End immediately springs to mind. That novel is widely considered a classic by many people, but I don't think very many would consider great characterization as one of its strong points. It's one of my favorite SF novels even so. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim <mailto:kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> Friedman To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:39 AM Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, Thursday, October 8, 2009 Hi, Evan, does the SF book club meet at accessibleworld.org? I can remember that address as it's short. With regard to Charles Stross, I've read his Manfred Max stories in Asimov's SF magazine, but I couldn't get into those stories nor could I identify with the characters or the culture. I don't think I'll read this one. Regards, Kim. _____ From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:23 PM To: Bob Acosta; scifi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, Thursday, October 8, 2009 Hi Folks, The next meeting of the Science Fiction Club will take place on Thursday, October 8, 2009 in the Book Nook at: http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs7867a2369e0e Time: 9 PM Eastern, 8 PM Central, 7 PM Mountain, 6 PM Pacific, and 01 hour UTC. For the next meeting, we are reading Glasshouse by Charles Stross. You can get it from both NLS--as digital download at: http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.nls/db.65900 or on tape with number RC 65900 and from Bookshare at: http://www.bookshare.org/browse/book/38343/Glasshouse%20?returnPath=L3NlYXJj aD9rZXl3b3JkPWdsYXNzaG91c2Um with an Excellent rating. Here is the long synopsis from Bookshare: When Robin wakes up in a clinic with most of his memories missing, it doesn't take him long to discover that someone is trying to kill him. It's the twenty-seventh century, when interstellar travel is by teleport gate and conflicts are fought by network worms that censor refugees' personalities-- including Robin's earlier self. On the run from a ruthless pursuer and searching for a place to hide, he volunteers to participate in a unique experimental polity: the Glasshouse, a historical simulation of a pre-accelerated culture circa 1950-2040 where participants are assigned anonymized identities. But what looks like the perfect sanctuary turns into a trap, placing Robin at the mercy of the experimenters-- and at the mercy of his own unbalanced psyche... And here is a review from Publisher's Weekly taken from Amazon: The censorship wars"during which the Curious Yellow virus devastated the network of wormhole gates connecting humanity across the cosmos"are finally over at the start of Hugo-winner Stross's brilliant new novel, set in the same far-future universe as 2005's Accelerando. Robin is one of millions who have had a mind wipe, to forget wartime memories that are too painful"or too dangerously inconvenient for someone else. To evade the enemies who don't think his mind wipe was enough, Robin volunteers to live in the experimental Glasshouse, a former prison for deranged war criminals that will recreate Earth's "dark ages" (c. 1950"2040). Entering the community as a female, Robin is initially appalled by life as a suburban housewife, then he realizes the other participants are all either retired spies or soldiers. Worse yet, fragments of old memories return"extremely dangerous in the Glasshouse, where the experimenters' intentions are as murky as Robin's grasp of his own identity. With nods to Kafka, James Tiptree and others, Stross's wry SF thriller satisfies on all levels, with memorable characters and enough brain-twisting extrapolation for five novels. At the last meeting, we had a great discussion of City by Clifford D. Simak, with more people than we've had in a long time. Hope to see even more next month. Evan __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4420 (20090912) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4420 (20090912) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4422 (20090913) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com