Hi Jon,
Last word on this subject.
A lot of blind people use thunderbird for email.
There is a good active email discussion list for blind users.
Yes, win eyes was great but it is no more.
N v d a is a free and good solution and there is also an excellent discussion
list for help on its use and There are people who will give you one on one
tutoring for free.
Jump right in,
The water is pretty good.
Mont
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Jon Rawlings
Sent: June 20, 2022 4:06 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
I don't have a problem moving to NVDA like you said, but here's my issue. All
of the formal training I ever received on a screen reader was from window eyes.
I'll try not to get into how sad and shameful it was that Window Wise and its
makers no longer exists. My point is, I never received any formal Jaws
training, and I don't know any of the keystrokes at all. I basically just
muddle through as best I can. So if I'm not familiar with the Jaws keystrokes,
I'm not going to know the keystrokes I need to use NVDA either. That is the
only reason I don't have it installed on my computer.
As for Microsoft Office and the 365 you mentioned, I'm just not willing to pay
any money to get an email client. Money is incredibly tight right now, and I
haven't worked with the state in years. Very likely, I never will again. Like
Robert suggested recently, I think I will try to Thunderbird and see if it
works for me. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But I do know is that I don't
particularly enjoy using my phone to send and receive e-mail messages. It
doesn't offer much in the way of functionality.
Jon
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: mrsingle@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mrsingle@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 6/20/22 2:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Hi Jonathan,
Windows 11, like windows 10 and its predecessors, comes with your pc or you
can buy a copy and install it on a custom built pc.
No, win 11 is not a subscription based software.
Micro soft office 365 is a subscription based service.
Micro soft office 2019, 2021, etc., are a one time purchase.
If you want to have micro soft outlook on your pc, you have to get the office
365 subscription, or the home and business edition of micro soft.
The student and home edition of micro soft office does not include outlook.
You can get the office 365 subscription for a single user or family which
means you can install it on more than 1 computer.
This makes the office 365 more attractive.
Finally, come, join the free world.
Start using NVDA as your primary screenreader. It is free and you can make
donations only if you want to.
I’ve been using NVDA for ten years.
For the majority of blind computer users, nvda works just as well as jaws.
You can have a jaws demo on your pc for those moments when nvda may not work.
And the great news is that most of the jaws keystrokes are the same as nvda,
and that’s because all these keystrokes are actually windows keystrokes.
Yes, there are some differences, but that is a small percentage.
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Jon Rawlings
Sent: June 20, 2022 8:24 AM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Robert.
I was totally unaware that there were two different versions of Outlook, one
that is web-based, and one that is not. The thing is, it's my understanding
that both Microsoft Office, as well as Windows 11, are products that you no
longer pay for and own, but a service that you subscribed to and pay monthly. I
am not down with that. These subscription services seem to be everywhere, and,
I don't know, it just feels like one giant bloodletting process, where all
these things are slowly draining the life out of me. As far as Thunderbird, my
problem there is that I am running a very outdated copy of Jaws, which is
definitely not compatible with the latest version of Mozilla Firefox. And I
simply don't have 400 or $500 to bring my jaws up to code. The state is not
paying for any of my software access anymore. The makers of Jaws know that the
vast majority of the end users are having all those update paid for by the
state, so they don't really care what the price is for the software and for the
updates. But if you are not getting that was paid for by a third-party, it
starts to get damned expensive, real quick. Perhaps I will download Thunderbird
and see if it will work with the software I have. As for office, the only
program I need on my computer is a word editor. Microsoft Word seems to be
getting more and more complex, and less and less accessible as time goes on.
It's not worth buying the entire office suite just to get Microsoft Word. So I
find myself with a real dilemma. I wonder if there is a web-based email service
I can use for free that would also be compatible with my screen reader. I have
heard of NVDA but haven't tinkered around with it very much. Perhaps I should.
Anyway, looks like I have a lot to consider here.
JOn
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Lee Beach <robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx> >
Date: 6/14/22 4:17 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Jon,
Outlook does have a client that runs on the local machine and it is accessible.
There is a learning curve due to the multitude of tasks it can perform. I agree
with you, the web based interface is a total mess, almost as bad as Teams. I
use the local client every day and “usually” have no issues.
Now, having said that, I forgot that Outlook became a part of Office several
years ago and is no longer a free client for the computers. I have had an
office subscription through work for so long that had slipped my mind. However,
from what I’ve seen, it is still a free app for mobile devices. I’ve helped
several folks download and set up Outlook on their mobile devices and there was
never a charge for it. They may have had an Office subscription, but I don’t
think so.
Okay, another email client that is very basic, free, and gets a lot of high
reviews from the blind community is Thunderbird. It does not have lots of bells
and whistles, but I don’t think you want those anyway. You might check it out.
I haven’t played with it in some time now, but I have a couple of students who
still use it and like it.
Sorry for any confusion I caused with my previous message.
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Jon Rawlings
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 11:55 AM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
RRobert,
In the past, some people have confused the regular Outlook email program with
Outlook Express. In case you have that assumption, let me just say right now
that they are two entirely separate programs. Outlook Express was a phenomenal,
and very user-friendly email client that made handling email is sent. There
honestly wasn't anything wrong with it that I can remember. I use Outlook
Express for over 20 years on various computer systems. The regular Outlook
program, which depends on you getting on the Internet to use it, absolutely
sucks! It is a disaster of a product, especially for the Blind and low vision.
If there are a handful of blind people out there that have figured out how to
use it, then I say good for them. But there are not words in any language
strong enough to communicate my contempt for the Outlook program. Outlook
Express should never have been allowed to become obsolete. It was everything
that an email program should be, and nothing that it shouldn't be. Likewise, I
find Gmail very cumbersome to use, and I don't like Google as a company much I
need help. There has got to be something out there somewhere that is at least a
decent email program while still being functional for the blind. But it is most
definitely not Outlook.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Lee Beach <robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx> >
Date: 6/13/22 7:26 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Outlook is part of Office 365, but you can get Outlook without having to
purchase Office.
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Jan Bailey
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 6:32 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Mine wasn’t free, but you can get Microsoft 365 for about $100 or a little more
a year. To me it’s well worth it.
Jan
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Robert Lee Beach
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 4:10 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop
Jon,
I have been using Outlook for a long time and have found it very workable. It
is free for your mobile and PC devices.
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Jon Rawlings
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 7:23 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blindcooks] Out of the loop
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Hi list.
Sorry I have been absent from the list for a while. This past month has been
insane! Starting with the weekend of Mother's Day, here in the United States,
things just went crazy. Not only was their Mother's Day, Emily's birthday, and
Heather's birthday all in the same week, but we also had a special religious
event for Heather that Saturday, and my in-laws were here for six days. Also at
the same time, little Charlie has been teething badly, making my day is rather
difficult. As if that wasn't bad enough, a nasty cold sweat through our family
starting about the third week of May, just before Memorial Day. I had all kinds
of grandiose plans to fire up Smokey Bear, the name I have designated for my
massive new charcoal grill, cooking some chicken drumsticks on it, and inviting
a family or two to join us that day for a good old-fashioned barbecue. It
didn't happen, because I was the one who was sick. And for some reason, now
with Charlie crawling, my life has suddenly become even more complicated but,
he's a trooper, at a cutie, and with the summer heat coming on here in Vegas,
we have been locked inside long enough that we are all just about going nuts.
We are looking forward to a trip to my mom's house on Saturday for some
swimming and quite possibly a little picnic on the back lawn. As a result of
all this, I have not been checking my email very often. I miss being able to
use email on my PC, as opposed to my cell phone. But I find Windows Live Mail
to be a very unstable and unreliable program for an email client. On that note,
I'm open to suggestion that do not involve Google Mail or any of the web-based
email site.
As far as food goes, I have been having a lot of fun. When my father-in-law was
here, he taught me how to make rice perfectly every time using something called
the pasta method. Essentially, you cook your rice in about four or five times
the amount of water that you are using for rice, cook it for about 15 minutes
on a gentle simmer, drain the rice, then put it back into the pot got it cooked
in, with the lid securely in place, and let it stand for about five more
minutes. I have to admit, my rice has been just about perfect every time I do
it, but the key is to let the rice drain thoroughly before putting it back into
the pot again. As far as actual recipes I have made lately, I tried one last
Saturday 4 noodles with a lot of chicken and asparagus in it, that was dressed
with a delicious Sesame peanut sauce. It was pretty easy to put together, and
Emily loved it so much that she requested that I put it back on the next menu
again. I am trying to simplify my menus, or at least that's what I tell myself
when I plan the menu, but I'm not doing very well at it. I need to use the oven
a whole lot less with this heat. I am going to try using Smokey Bear, on the
next menu cycle, to do our cast iron pizzas. This Grill is wonderful because I
can set the temperature to exactly what I want it to be, and the grill
automatically takes care of the rest. Yet it uses charcoal, not pellets. We can
still make our pizzas and summer without heating up the house. Anyway, I'm
trying to go through all of my emails and get caught up, but it's going to take
me a couple of days. Right now I am stealing time away from the baby, and it is
obvious he wants me to feed him something solid. Just wanted to let you all
know I'm still here, and I'm still giving some serious thought to moving the
list to another server. But one thing at a time.
Jon
