I don't have a problem moving to NVDA like you said, but here's my issue. All
of the formal training I ever received on a screen reader was from window eyes.
I'll try not to get into how sad and shameful it was that Window Wise and its
makers no longer exists. My point is, I never received any formal Jaws
training, and I don't know any of the keystrokes at all. I basically just
muddle through as best I can. So if I'm not familiar with the Jaws keystrokes,
I'm not going to know the keystrokes I need to use NVDA either. That is the
only reason I don't have it installed on my computer.As for Microsoft Office
and the 365 you mentioned, I'm just not willing to pay any money to get an
email client. Money is incredibly tight right now, and I haven't worked with
the state in years. Very likely, I never will again. Like Robert suggested
recently, I think I will try to Thunderbird and see if it works for me. Maybe
it will, maybe it won't. But I do know is that I don't particularly enjoy using
my phone to send and receive e-mail messages. It doesn't offer much in the way
of functionality.JonSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------From: mrsingle@xxxxxxxxxxx Date: 6/20/22
2:57 PM (GMT-08:00) To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out
of the loop Hi Jonathan, Windows 11, like windows 10 and its predecessors,
comes with your pc or you can buy a copy and install it on a custom built
pc.No, win 11 is not a subscription based software.Micro soft office 365 is a
subscription based service.Micro soft office 2019, 2021, etc., are a one
time purchase.If you want to have micro soft outlook on your pc, you have to
get the office 365 subscription, or the home and business edition of micro
soft.The student and home edition of micro soft office does not include
outlook. You can get the office 365 subscription for a single user or
family which means you can install it on more than 1 computer.This makes the
office 365 more attractive. Finally, come, join the free world.Start using NVDA
as your primary screenreader. It is free and you can make donations only if
you want to.I’ve been using NVDA for ten years.For the majority of blind
computer users, nvda works just as well as jaws.You can have a jaws demo on
your pc for those moments when nvda may not work. And the great news is that
most of the jaws keystrokes are the same as nvda, and that’s because all
these keystrokes are actually windows keystrokes. Yes, there are some
differences, but that is a small percentage. From:
blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Jon RawlingsSent: June 20, 2022 8:24 AMTo: blindcooks@freelists.orgSubject:
[blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop Robert.I was totally unaware that there were
two different versions of Outlook, one that is web-based, and one that is not.
The thing is, it's my understanding that both Microsoft Office, as well as
Windows 11, are products that you no longer pay for and own, but a service that
you subscribed to and pay monthly. I am not down with that. These subscription
services seem to be everywhere, and, I don't know, it just feels like one giant
bloodletting process, where all these things are slowly draining the life out
of me. As far as Thunderbird, my problem there is that I am running a very
outdated copy of Jaws, which is definitely not compatible with the latest
version of Mozilla Firefox. And I simply don't have 400 or $500 to bring my
jaws up to code. The state is not paying for any of my software access anymore.
The makers of Jaws know that the vast majority of the end users are having all
those update paid for by the state, so they don't really care what the price is
for the software and for the updates. But if you are not getting that was paid
for by a third-party, it starts to get damned expensive, real quick. Perhaps I
will download Thunderbird and see if it will work with the software I have. As
for office, the only program I need on my computer is a word editor. Microsoft
Word seems to be getting more and more complex, and less and less accessible as
time goes on. It's not worth buying the entire office suite just to get
Microsoft Word. So I find myself with a real dilemma. I wonder if there is a
web-based email service I can use for free that would also be compatible with
my screen reader. I have heard of NVDA but haven't tinkered around with it very
much. Perhaps I should. Anyway, looks like I have a lot to consider here.JOn
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message --------From:
Robert Lee Beach <robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx> Date: 6/14/22 4:17 PM (GMT-08:00) To:
blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop Jon,
Outlook does have a client that runs on the local machine and it is accessible.
There is a learning curve due to the multitude of tasks it can perform. I agree
with you, the web based interface is a total mess, almost as bad as Teams. I
use the local client every day and “usually” have no issues. Now, having said
that, I forgot that Outlook became a part of Office several years ago and is no
longer a free client for the computers. I have had an office subscription
through work for so long that had slipped my mind. However, from what I’ve
seen, it is still a free app for mobile devices. I’ve helped several folks
download and set up Outlook on their mobile devices and there was never a
charge for it. They may have had an Office subscription, but I don’t think so.
Okay, another email client that is very basic, free, and gets a lot of high
reviews from the blind community is Thunderbird. It does not have lots of bells
and whistles, but I don’t think you want those anyway. You might check it out.
I haven’t played with it in some time now, but I have a couple of students who
still use it and like it. Sorry for any confusion I caused with my previous
message. From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Jon RawlingsSent: Tuesday, June
14, 2022 11:55 AMTo: blindcooks@freelists.orgSubject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of
the loop RRobert, In the past, some people have confused the regular Outlook
email program with Outlook Express. In case you have that assumption, let me
just say right now that they are two entirely separate programs. Outlook
Express was a phenomenal, and very user-friendly email client that made
handling email is sent. There honestly wasn't anything wrong with it that I can
remember. I use Outlook Express for over 20 years on various computer systems.
The regular Outlook program, which depends on you getting on the Internet to
use it, absolutely sucks! It is a disaster of a product, especially for the
Blind and low vision. If there are a handful of blind people out there that
have figured out how to use it, then I say good for them. But there are not
words in any language strong enough to communicate my contempt for the Outlook
program. Outlook Express should never have been allowed to become obsolete. It
was everything that an email program should be, and nothing that it shouldn't
be. Likewise, I find Gmail very cumbersome to use, and I don't like Google as a
company much I need help. There has got to be something out there somewhere
that is at least a decent email program while still being functional for the
blind. But it is most definitely not Outlook. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE
Device -------- Original message --------From: Robert Lee Beach
<robertbeach@xxxxxxxxx> Date: 6/13/22 7:26 PM (GMT-08:00) To:
blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop Outlook is
part of Office 365, but you can get Outlook without having to purchase Office.
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Jan BaileySent: Monday, June 13, 2022 6:32 PMTo:
blindcooks@freelists.orgSubject: [blindcooks] Re: Out of the loop Mine wasn’t
free, but you can get Microsoft 365 for about $100 or a little more a year. To
me it’s well worth it.Jan From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Robert Lee BeachSent: Monday,
June 13, 2022 4:10 PMTo: blindcooks@freelists.orgSubject: [blindcooks] Re: Out
of the loop Jon, I have been using Outlook for a long time and have found it
very workable. It is free for your mobile and PC devices. From:
blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Jon RawlingsSent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 7:23 PMTo:
blindcooks@freelists.orgSubject: [blindcooks] Out of the loop Sent from
my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceHi list.Sorry I have been absent from the list for a
while. This past month has been insane! Starting with the weekend of Mother's
Day, here in the United States, things just went crazy. Not only was their
Mother's Day, Emily's birthday, and Heather's birthday all in the same week,
but we also had a special religious event for Heather that Saturday, and my
in-laws were here for six days. Also at the same time, little Charlie has been
teething badly, making my day is rather difficult. As if that wasn't bad
enough, a nasty cold sweat through our family starting about the third week of
May, just before Memorial Day. I had all kinds of grandiose plans to fire up
Smokey Bear, the name I have designated for my massive new charcoal grill,
cooking some chicken drumsticks on it, and inviting a family or two to join us
that day for a good old-fashioned barbecue. It didn't happen, because I was the
one who was sick. And for some reason, now with Charlie crawling, my life has
suddenly become even more complicated but, he's a trooper, at a cutie, and with
the summer heat coming on here in Vegas, we have been locked inside long enough
that we are all just about going nuts. We are looking forward to a trip to my
mom's house on Saturday for some swimming and quite possibly a little picnic on
the back lawn. As a result of all this, I have not been checking my email very
often. I miss being able to use email on my PC, as opposed to my cell phone.
But I find Windows Live Mail to be a very unstable and unreliable program for
an email client. On that note, I'm open to suggestion that do not involve
Google Mail or any of the web-based email site.As far as food goes, I have been
having a lot of fun. When my father-in-law was here, he taught me how to make
rice perfectly every time using something called the pasta method. Essentially,
you cook your rice in about four or five times the amount of water that you are
using for rice, cook it for about 15 minutes on a gentle simmer, drain the
rice, then put it back into the pot got it cooked in, with the lid securely in
place, and let it stand for about five more minutes. I have to admit, my rice
has been just about perfect every time I do it, but the key is to let the rice
drain thoroughly before putting it back into the pot again. As far as actual
recipes I have made lately, I tried one last Saturday 4 noodles with a lot of
chicken and asparagus in it, that was dressed with a delicious Sesame peanut
sauce. It was pretty easy to put together, and Emily loved it so much that she
requested that I put it back on the next menu again. I am trying to simplify my
menus, or at least that's what I tell myself when I plan the menu, but I'm not
doing very well at it. I need to use the oven a whole lot less with this heat.
I am going to try using Smokey Bear, on the next menu cycle, to do our cast
iron pizzas. This Grill is wonderful because I can set the temperature to
exactly what I want it to be, and the grill automatically takes care of the
rest. Yet it uses charcoal, not pellets. We can still make our pizzas and
summer without heating up the house. Anyway, I'm trying to go through all of my
emails and get caught up, but it's going to take me a couple of days. Right now
I am stealing time away from the baby, and it is obvious he wants me to feed
him something solid. Just wanted to let you all know I'm still here, and I'm
still giving some serious thought to moving the list to another server. But one
thing at a time.Jon
