RE: wow, what an insult

  • From: "Foxtrot1" <foxtrot1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:06:31 -0500

Finally, the voice of reason!





From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gary E. Lieberg
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:18 PM
To: 'Marlaina Lieberg'; 'Jerry Halatyn'; 'Darrell Shandrow'
Cc: 'Adam Curry'; 'C.C. Chapman'; blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'Jeff Bishop'
Subject: RE: wow, what an insult


I'm the silent partner in most cases, but this really burnt my butt.  I'm
Marlaina's sighted other-half, husband, partner, sighted guide, or whatever
you want to call me.  I watch the microcosm of the blind community on a
daily basis.  It is no different from the rest of the world in that there
are people who have no tolerance for difference and/or cannot see the big


In response to a great idea from Adam Curry, Jerry did what he could as fast
as he could to record a new version and make the music available to the
MAINSTREAM public.  Why the mainstream?  Simple economics -- you make more
money for the project.  The fact that right now, people with visual
disabilities have problems with PMN is irrelevant.  This fact is relevant;
there are more people with working eyeballs who can purchase more copies in
a shorter amount of time than there are blind people to do the same.  More
copies sold, more money for the project this year -- end of story for this
year!  The happy part is that this song is good for many years to come.
There is time to work out the immediate problems.  The strategic objective
is to make sure the project survives and makes money in perpetuity.


Should PMN be made accessible?  You bet, but it isn't going to happen this
month!  In the mean time other methods are available for people who are
blind or visually impaired to procure the song.  In the final analysis those
who continue to be reactive make it very difficult for those who are trying
to be proactive.  Knee jerk reactions promote negative actions.  It takes
thoughtful proactive response to make things work.  


To Jerry/Slau:  You are a talented artist, audio engineer, leader, manager,
and probably several other things.  You have met your objective as best as
you can given your resources (time, money, and people.)  You have also shown
that you can stand the heat of the critics.  Keep up the great work!


To the Critics:  Put your minds in a positive frame.  Think about what
Christmas means.  Listen to what the song says. Find out how you can help
fix what you so ardently criticize!


For Adam Curry and C.C. Chapman:  As a friend of mine from West Virginia
used to say, "It takes all kinds to fill the freight wagon."  You've seen
some of the best and and some of the others.  Thanks for your ideas and
interest and don't count out this community of the blind.  There is a gob of
talent out there just waiting to be unleashed, and in the final analysis
that is the larger problem; how do they get a chance (access) to do it?


Here's wishing everyone a peaceful and wonderful holiday season.


Gary Lieberg

(The Board Guy)

-----Original Message-----
From: Marlaina Lieberg [mailto:blindcast@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:36 AM
To: Jerry Halatyn; Darrell Shandrow
Cc: Adam Curry; C.C. Chapman; blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Jeff Bishop
Subject: Re: wow, what an insult

Jerry and all,


Let me say that I deeply appreciate the work you are doing.  In fact, I have
a new show doing music over on Shellworld Radio every Friday night, and I
played both your original and the Podsafe for Peace version.


It is embarrassing to me that there are those folks who think that
minimizing and compromising the work of others are good change-agentry
skills.  Do I want the podsafe music network to be accessible?  You bet I
do!  Does it irritate the crap out of me that in this day and age, we are
still talking about basic equality in access for blind folks?  You bet it
does.  But, unlike Darrell and a minority of others, I think most of us
understand that the way to create change is to demonstrate the need, then to
lend the knowledge and skills needed to create the change.  Once again, I'm
embarrassed by the militant bravado techniques which in reality, represent
the methodology of but a few.


To Adam and C. C., I'm eagerly awaiting the day when i can download music
for my podcasts and highlight some of the fabulous talent there.  To that
end though I know you have people whose talents are far more sophisticated
than mine, I'm delighted to beta test or assist in what ever way I can.
Please ignore the bravado, and spend energy on resolving the access issue.


Jerry, thank you for including me in this loop.  Anytime you want to
publicize this further, ACB Radio's Marlaina program will welcome you with
open arms.


Darrell, I'm not interested in getting into a back and forth match with you
on this one as you tried to do on visual verification.  You have your ways,
I have mine; I think yours are counter productive and will only further push
key sighted people who could help, away for longer and longer.  Evangelism
means teaching and guiding, not beating the crap out of somebody who is
making in-roads.  Your type of evangelism will destroy rather than rebuild.
Live with that responsibility, I'm glad I do not have to.


Happy Holidays to all.


Marlaina Lieberg

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jerry <mailto:jhalatyn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  Halatyn 

To: Darrell Shandrow <mailto:nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

Cc: Adam Curry <mailto:adam@xxxxxxxxx>  ; C.C. Chapman
<mailto:cc.chapman@xxxxxxxxx>  ; blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Marlaina
<mailto:blindcast@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  Lieberg ; Jeff Bishop

Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:38 PM

Subject: Re: wow, what an insult


Darrell, First of all, I don't subscribe to your podcast and  I don't follow
your journal. It was brought to my attention by someone else.


Second, your facts are wrong about the song not being available to blind
podcasters. The song is and always was available directly from me. Jeff
asked if he could give it to other podcasters and decided to post it on his
website. As I said, there was no way of ensuring that only podcasters would
receive the song so, it was decided by both of us to change the method of
delivery. The inaccessibility of the Podsafe Music Network is not nmy
problem. Deal with it.


That this is not endorsed by UNICEF is entirely correct but that has no
bearing on whether it is a legitimate project. This project was only born on
October 31st of this year when Adam played the tune and had the idea of
making it a benefit. Do you think that anyone could've gotten UNICEF to
endorse it in no time at all? Fat chance.


Further, I worked my fingers to the bone for almost 30 straight days,
pulling 12 to 16 hour days with no pay, no financial support from any other
entity. I paid all out-of pocket expenses by myself. I registered domain
names. I'm paying a designer who is designing and maintaining the website.
I'm spending hours upon hours, helping people who are having trouble here
and there with downloads or payments to Paypal. I'm spending hours upon
hours writing and editing press releases, e-mailing mainstream media,
setting up interviews. I'm about to hire a publicist to try and spread the
word about this benefit project. All of this is at my own expense. I not
only don't make money on this deal -- I actually lose money. These are all,
of course, facts that you would have no knowledge of but would just as soon
not need to come to your conclusion that it's not a project worth supporting
and even boycotting.


And you say no good deed goes unpunished? yes, indeed, how true it is. You
have clearly illustrated this adage.


You're so clueless that you don't even realize how insulting you can be.
Further, you have no concept of how you come across to others. You've
demonstrated that publicly. Feel free to express your opinions publicaly and
I'll do the same.


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Darrell Shandrow <mailto:nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

To: Slau <mailto:slau@xxxxxxxx>  

Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 12:39 AM

Subject: Re: wow, what an insult


Hey Jerry,


Glad to see you listening and reading the journal.  :-)  Unfortunately, due
to requests for a number of changes Jeff felt the need to take down the
accessible means to download the song, thus this avenue is no longer
available to us.  PMN is currently inaccessible, both in use and
registration.  Those are the facts.  Jeff made a way for us to get the song
and to report back on who was downloading it.  That was extremely fair.
That method had to be taken down.  Little or no consideration was given to
the hours Jeff spent setting it all up in the first place.  In any case,
there is no insult intended here.  There is no other way for podcasters to
freely download the song for play on their podcasts other than PMN, which is
still inaccessible.  I'm disappointed and upset with you for some things
surrounding the project, and I have a right to publicly express my
displeasure.  Everything I am saying is based on the facts, including the
fact that this is not an official UNICEF project officially endorsed by that
charity, so we have no way of knowing, 100 percent certain, where the
proceeds will go.  Facts.  Sorry.  Especially due to the accessibility
issues, I feel completely free to make sure all the facts are obvious for
everyone, as well as to discourage others from playing this on their shows.


Lesson should be learned next time to make sure the needs of your blind
brothers and sisters are correctly and completely accomodated in all that
you do.  Whenever that is not the case, you may expect flack from
accessibility evangelists such as myself.






----- Original Message ----- 

From: Slau <mailto:slau@xxxxxxxx>  

To: Darrell Shandrow <mailto:nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:35 PM

Subject: wow, what an insult


Wow, how insulting that you would be dissappointed in my accommodation for
blind persons to download a broadcast copy of the Podsafe for Peace song. I
actually went out of my way to make sure it was available through Jeff
Bishop's site. You've obviously not considered the fact that people with no
podcast feeds were downloading the song. What kind of sense is that?
Downloading a song for free that's supposed to be a fund-raiser?


Thanks a lot.

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