blind_html Re: List name

  • From: "Robin L. Clark" <lighthouse101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <blind_html@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:01:04 -0500

Hey Elf;

I'm using these browsers to test my pages; Internet Explorer, FireFox with Fire 
Vox screen reader (a bit of a pain to get it working half decent), Safari, 
WebIE with Thunder screen reader (not too bad) and Opera under Windows XP Pro. 
My old computer took a dump after a Microsoft update a few weeks ago messed the 
registry system up beyond restore and I'm using my wife's computer. Her name is 
Robin, I'm Blaine. I'm toying with the idea of doing a clean install on the old 
computer with some distribution of Linux, probably Ubuntu or Fedora. I'd like 
to do this for two main reasons. To get rid of Microsoft. I've had trouble 
after every single major security update since about February. We've got one 
friend who's had trouble with Internet Explorer not connecting, which was our 
problem mostly. Every other browser worked just fine but not IE. Another friend 
has lost connection with Outlook Express. He has to use his browser to go 
online to his ISP and get his email that way. I think MS has finally updated 
themselves into some trouble this summer. The other reason I'd like to use 
Linux is that it's used commercially by many companies and also by a fairly 
large chunk of the public, especially in England and parts of Europe. I think 
it might be a good idea to use it and some compatible open source browsers to 
make sure everything is OK for those who use Linux. I don't know if there are 
any comparable accessibility programs, but I'll find out.

I've looked over and also a few other 'authorities'. To say the 
tutorials are a bit misleading is OK, but when different 'authorities' can't 
agree on what is good page structure, then it's pretty much just do something 
and see how it goes for anyone who has the time to check what's been done and 
get back with a critique. For example, some authorities say don't use Java 
Script for anything, others say it's OK except for visual effects which can 
mess up some screen readers. Some say don't use any graphics, others say 
graphics are OK as long as they are tagged with alt or title or both.

Headers? I like headers because I'm sighted and they stand out. Didn't realize 
they worked well for VI's too. Great!

I've used headers and small graphic bars in place of HR code. Now I'm wondering 
if the little bars are too much. Back to the HR code, how well do screen 
readers interpret that? Would I be better off using HR?

Hmm... Didn't know about the graphic's name and link problem with screen 
readers. I haven't used them and so hadn't tested any of them with my so - so 
screen readers. I'll file that bit of info away for later.

I knew that graphics were a bit of a hog, just didn't know how much with screen 

I've heard that frames and iframes are a no - no by some, and OK by others, so 
I stay away from them. I have used a bit of list formatting, the ordered, 
unordered and definitions styles. Haven't done much with tables.

I haven't used Java Script for anything except obfuscating email address and 
playing around with a site search utility so far.

I haven't tried one bit of CGI or PHP yet. I'm still playing around learning 
HTML and CSS and a bit of Java Script. Speaking of CSS, I've got a CSS styled 
drop down menu that works exactly like the Java Script drop down menu. I 
haven't used it in a page yet because I'm not sure how screen readers handle 
that. I'm a bit leery since it does work and move just like the Java Script 

Now, pages with a ton of links ... I've done that. Didn't know it was such a 
pain. Is there a decent way to present a large lineup of links? I've got one 
page each of local support links, state-wide support links, US support links 
and world-wide support links. That's four pages full! I'd like to keep them 
available. When I started the links, I had them all on one page and it grew 
into a little monster, so I cut it up, but it's a hydra! It keeps growing!

Graphics again. This brings up an interesting one ... the one group I belong to 
just had a convention and when they get the videos and some pictures processed, 
they'd like me to arrange them on some pages. I've started a rough draft until 
I get a handle of some sort on the size, type and number of files. I've got 
them set up from the main index page to a visual index page. That way, totals 
or very low vision people can just bypass that index file altogether.

For a font I use Arial Rounded MT bold, Helvetica, Sans Serif. I read a report 
that claimed this font was the best all around one to use for low vision and 
full vision viewing. I have to agree that it does look good and it reads easy. 
I load it in the body statement in a CSS file but I don't make any part of the 
CSS persistent, so that anyone who has styles set for their personal browser or 
magnifier shouldn't have a problem over-riding my CSS.

For the state PCB site I've used a light tan background with black font. That 
went over well with all the low visions that checked the pages. And I now see 
that's the primary format on the AFB site! Too much contrast, like black on 
white, white on black, red on green and several others can be very tiring to 
look at. As a guess, anyone who has a screen magnifier program would probably 
have their browser and magnifier set to display everything to what they prefer, 
so really, isn't the change colors and more page a bit redundant?

I've worked with the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind main state 
organization's Communications Committee to cleanup and brighten up their site. 
I'm also working solo on a main site and a sub-site for our local chapter of 
the PCB. The main site is and there's no way 
I can clean up all the PBwiki clutter on those pages. I don't have access to 
that part of it.
The sub-site is one level below the previous site, It's clean of the PBwiki 
page coding. For the sub-site, I've used a combination of background images and 
background colors from page to page. Waiting to get more input on which is 
preferred. Later on, I think I'll trim the upper directory to probably one 
introductory page and direct to the index file in the subdirectory.

Thanks Elf

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