Growing up in the New York suburbs, I sometimes ran into people who thought
that going to college and becoming a social worker or computer programmer
was far below living on the largesse. Some of them were pretty screwed up.
There was also a hierarchy of those who take a shower after work and those
who shower before work. This distinction isn't very useful. It really is
the ninety nine percent v.. those few who have the real power.
Abby
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 7:08 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: what is the working class?
Doing an analysis of class and its function in society is what you're
talking about. It's important as one way of understanding human beings and
how they function. But in every day useage, in normal, day to day
conversation, most of us aren't attempting to get involved in all those
complexities. When people here on Long Island describe a family as middle
class, just about everyone on Long Island thinkss they know what the
general definition is. But among all those people who agree on the general
definition, there are divisions based on amount of education, ethnicity,
race, income level, and the kinds of work people do. There's nothing
scientific or analytic about it.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: what is the working class?
Well, income, wealth and resources are not really that different. It is the
context that makes them different, that is, what they are being used for and
how they are being distributed at any given time. The reason that dividing
classes into low, middle and high income or low, middle and high wealth has
no use is that it completely ignores the dynamics of the class society. In a
way it actually denies that class exists at all.
If you regard class as just collections of people with a lot of wealth, a
little bit of wealth and an amount of wealth somewhere in between you are
completely ignoring how wealth is accumulated, how it is distributed and how
to remedy the situation. It ignores that there is an employing class that
exploits the employed class. It ignores the struggle between these class for
supremacy. Actually it just ignores the complexity of society in general. By
this view if someone is in the low income category then all that person has
to do is to just make more money, perhaps invest in a Wall Street bank. I
think that view is a part of bourgeois ideology and I started to say
bourgeois liberalism, but it is more an aspect of all the bourgeois
ideologies. That is, to preserve the class structure just deny that there is
any class structure and convince the exploited that all they have to do is
to work harder and make more money just like their bosses do. That is an
idea promoted not only by liberals, but by the very most right-wing
bourgeois ideologists. We are all equal under the law and so we are all
equal. It is just as illegal for a rich person to sleep under a bridge as it
is for a poor person to sleep under a bridge. When a rich person runs a red
light he is fined the very same amount as a poor person who runs a red
light. The treatment is equal because there are no classes and there is no
such thing as privilege. After all, it's just that some people have more
money than other people and sitting in a penthouse office transferring
millions of dollars around from bank to bank is really hard labor, almost as
hard as paving the highways or as digging a mile under the ground for coal
to create more money for the guy in that penthouse office to shuffle around.
If the simplistic view that there are only high, middle and low income
people around without regard to how the various people interacting with
other of various ranks and privileges is true then there is no need to
analyze and if there is any usefulness to this then the usefulness is for
the members of the ruling class who will be more secure in their positions
if everyone believes this.
On 8/27/2016 6:24 AM, Frank Ventura wrote:
Not at all useful, as income, wealth, and resources are three verydifferent things.
Frankin relation to that which is acquired by others. But I really don't see how
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran ;
Bailey
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:47 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: what is the working class?
Okay, it means that. Low income means that one does not acquire much
money
On 8/26/2016 9:27 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
That's because when I do that, I'm consciously omitting definitions
and all of the complications that are involved in those definitions.
Low income means just that. It says nothing about the kind of work an
individual does, his education, or anything else. But it tells you
that in a society like our's, where more and more functions are being
privatized, that person will have a really hard time.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger ;
Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: what is the working class?
I don't see how it is of much use at all to describe people in terms
of upper, middle and lower income. That says nothing about their role
in the economy or their place in the dynamics of society. It would be
similar to attending medical school and only learning that the human
body consists of two parts, meat and bones.
On 8/26/2016 10:13 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I find it most useful in 2016 America, when trying to describeword.
people in economic terms, to talk about low income, middle income, etc.
Class, seems to me, to be a word that encompasses much more than
income and can be misleading. But, unfortunately, the phrase will
not disappear from this list because it is tied to an intellectual
framework to which people are loyal. It's like asking people to stop
referring to God, because they mean such different things by the
same
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice ;
Dampman Humel
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:26 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] what is the working class?
the subject line says it.as I read all these messages about the
working class, I begin to suspect everyone has his/her own
definition of it, and that, of course determines all the rest.
And, it also often seems that the definitions shift and drift
depending on the particular point being made at any given time.
Thoughts?
