Actually I spend more time denying that the US Constitution protects
my freedom. I spend some time peddling the idea that our nation has
undergone a quiet coup by the Pentagon. i.e. today I heard that
attempts to audit the Pentagon have ended in a standoff. But there
seems to be at least 100 billion unaccounted dollars that funds
"undeclared wars" by the American Ruling Class.
I spend time suggesting that Working Class American s have been
propagandized to the point where they can no longer tell fact from
fiction.
I have tried hard not to express my anger over those phony religious
soothsayers who work hand in hand with the Ruling Class.
And I do try not to repeat my position that I do not now, nor have I,
for some years, cared whether there is a Higher Power, or not. I am
not the brightest bulb in the knife drawer but I do know that there is
no point in debating a subject that is of no concern. I don't debate
the existence of Santa Claus because whether he is really living at
the North Pole or not, makes no difference. Unless they try to shove
it down my throat, and some still do, I don't care if people choose to
believe in some perfect Hereafter. But I do become angered when a
Ruling Class uses the Fear of an Almighty God as a weapon to keep
their subjects in line, and those same Subjects dare to tell me that I
have been brainwashed and that it is me that is driving wedges and
causing doubt.
We are complex creatures living in a complex universe. Since 1995 I
have written a Christmas letter, which we send to distant relatives
and friends. Yet I don't believe that Jesus was born on December 25.
Nor do I believe that He, and He alone was crucified to somehow save
all mankind, and that He arose from the grave...etc. etc. etc.
But I have 24 "Christmas" letters stacked in front of me. They will
be bound into a booklet as a chronicle of events in the lives of Carl
and Cathy and family and friends, for any in the family who care to
collect such stuff. Does that mean I am trying to continue existing
beyond my physical death? I don't know, nor do I care.
No, for me it is comfortable just continuing to be an Agnostic.
Carl A. Jarvis
(No, the A. stands for Allen, not Agnostic)grin
On 12/8/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
You spend a lot of time here expressing an atheist position to be shying
away from the word atheist. Maybe you should just break down and admit
to being one. I told the story once here about how I came to break down
and admit it. It was when I was in a college class and someone told me
that I kept taking atheist positions so why didn't I just call myself an
atheist. I said that, okay, I'm an atheist, and I haven't stopped
calling myself that since. And I had been an atheist, not the agnostic
kind, for about two years at the time. But when I was an agnostic form
of atheist for about four years, from the age of twelve to the age of
sixteen, I had been making the mistake of equating the probability of
there being a god and the probability of there not being a god. In
retrospect I realize that I just had not thought it through. I did not
even realize that I was equating the two propositions. I just thought
that I couldn't prove it one way or another. So I didn't know whether
there was a god or not.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/8/2018 5:50 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Roger,
I think that earlier I mentioned that I like the quote by Isaac
Asimov. I used to read his Science Article in Galaxy Magazine.
Later, when the Asimov Science Fiction magazine was published in
Braille, I subscribed in order to improve my Braille skills. I was
very disappointed when they cancelled the Braille edition. I still
get the recorded magazine from the Talking Book and Braille Library,
but only glance at it from time to time.
In fact, I do not consider that there is any chance that God
exists...or not. No 50/50 chance.
When I walked away from Christianity, it was because I tired of people
so certain regarding the existence of something they only had second
hand stories as proof. But I don't care what they believe. And
working with so many elderly people who express deep Faith, I say
nothing. Seldom do we discuss religion with our clients, but once in
a while we are pressed into a corner. Of course we could say, "we are
not allowed to discuss religion", but I refuse to be bound by
bureaucratic mumbling, either. So this woman said, "I'm so glad good
Christians have come to see me". I said, "Thank you, but we're not
Christian". She sat silent for a minute, and then said, "But my dogs
love you. If you were not Believers they would not let you enter."
She continued along these lines for some while, not wanting to accept
my word that I was not a Christian. Finally, after going around and
around, I asked her, "Do you believe that God created Adam and Eve,
and put them in the Garden of Eden? Do you believe that Noah built a
boat big enough to put two of every animal on board?"
"Yes", she confirmed. "Yes! God did exactly that." I said, "Then we
have nothing to discuss."
I often think about so many people I've known who feel driven to force
me to accept their beliefs. When I'm in the mood, I try to get them
to accept that there is really a Tooth Fairy". "I know there is a
Tooth Fairy," I assure them, "Because whenever I lost a tooth, a dime
appeared under my pillow in place of the tooth. And my mother told me
that it was the Tooth Fairy. She said she saw it sneak in while I was
sleeping." They act as if I'd lost my mind. How could I honestly
believe such silliness? "well," I tell them, "you expect me to
believe in an invisible God and His buddy the Holy Spirit, and if you
are Catholic, you also tell me that Mother Mary is there to intercede.
And all of this is simply on the second hand word of long dead men who
wrote a book. By the way, did you know that Tinker Bell is real? I
saw her in a movie."
I'm told that I am being silly! I'm assured that Faith is very
complex and sophisticated. I tell them that if God's Word is so
complicated that it takes someone really smart, like them, then I have
to question just how truly wise God is. Don't you think He would make
His Word simple enough that the dumbest of us would understand?
Religion is simply a tool of those in control. It may also be a
shield from the knowledge that we humans understand, our mortality,
something much of animal life does not deal with. But in truth,
believing in God answers nothing, including the proof it would take to
demonstrate God's presence. Hmm, I do believe I'm going around in
circles. That is scary. If I keep it up I might find myself creating
God.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/8/18, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I still think you are falsely assuming an even chance between the
existence or nonexistence of a deity. As for the J. K. Rowling quote,
you might remember that I used to have a quote in my signature line that
I changed every month. I originally started that because there were so
many religious signatures on these blind lists and I wanted to counter
them a bit. But it was getting harder to find a quote that I had not
used and so when I upgraded to Windows 7 and started using Thunderbird
with it I just went back to no signature just because it was easier that
way. But I use the Goodreads site. I have still not quite fully explored
it, though, even though I have now been using it for years. But it turns
out that Goodreads has a feature for looking up genres of literature.
There are a lot of genres and I think Goodreads recognizes more than the
publishers do. Once you open up a page dedicated to a particular genre
you find lists of books in that genre including new books, most popular
books, lists related to the genre and so forth. One of the features is a
couple of quotations related to the genre. So back in mid October I was
looking at the genre page for skepticism and under skepticism quotations
was one by Isaac Asimov that I really liked. So I decided to start
putting a signature line on my emails again and I pasted that Asimov
quote. It so happens that at the bottom of the quotations on that page
was a link to more skepticism quotations. That was one of the features
on Goodreads that I had never explored. This time I clicked it and got a
very long list of quotations. For the most part I liked all of them. So
I kept the Asimov quote through the second half of October and all of
the month of November. Then came December and I thought it was about
time to change my signature. I went back to the skepticism page and
looked at the quotes again. This time the two quotations were different.
I think Goodreads automatically rotates which quotations appear on the
genre pages. I did not bother to shop through the long list of
quotations that I would get if I had clicked the more skepticism
quotations link. After all, I like most of them. I just took the first
one and pasted it into my signature line. It makes a point that I have
to keep making over and over myself. Someone will be beating me over the
head with some matter of superstition and I will ask how they know what
they are telling me is true. I get back, how do you know it isn't? As
usual it is because the probability of it being true is one in infinity.
So Rowling makes my point. There are an infinity of things you could
believe if you believed only because no one has ever proven it to be
false.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/8/2018 11:32 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Roger,
I enjoyed your quote: J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
Nonetheless, I am an Agnostic, subset or not.
I neither care, nor believe, nor disbelieve in God or the Hereafter.
I know for certain that this life will end one day. While I believe
that will end my awareness, I'll not know for certain until I either
realize that I still exist in some form or another, or that I do not.
I am doing all I can do in order to enjoy what years I will continue
in this life.
Carl Jarvis
On 12/7/18, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Carl, an atheist is simply a person who does not believe that there is
a
deity. That makes agnosticism a subset of atheism. You are an atheist.
_________________________________________________________________
J.K. Rowling
“ I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for
believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist! ”
― J.K. Rowling
On 12/7/2018 11:13 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Greetings Mostafa and all Believers and Non Believers
First, I am not an Atheist, but I do consider myself to be Agnostic.
To my associates that means I'm a Lazy Atheist. I prefer to say, an
uncaring Believer in not much of anything at all.
Second, you are going off again, grouping people under a heading,
even
though they are as different as Human Beings can be. I certainly
think of you as being an individual, different from my Muslim
friends,
who are also different from one another.
You suggest that we exist in a "perfect universe". Where did you get
that notion? Look about you. This is not a perfect universe. But
we
do have to live here, imperfect as it is. Comets zoom past our
little
Earth, sometimes slamming into it causing great damage.
And just look out there and notice all the wasted space that could be
turned into farm land, with streams and lakes and little towns where
we might all live in peace. And we are dashing out into the unknown
at speeds we cannot conceive, headed where? Frankly, I would
question
my Faith if I believed that this universe was the best that God could
do.
And just one last thought. Do you truly believe that this Earth is
Perfect? It is part of the "perfect" universe. And yet, we were
created with the need to kill and devour other life in order to
survive. If this is Perfection, I tremble to think of what Heaven
looks like.
Carl Jarvis
