In fact, I can point to an example of giving up as a part of my cost
benefit analysis. It was Braille. I had actually learned to read it by
the time I gave up too. The trouble was that I was reading at a rate of
about one page every forty-five minutes and each of those forty-five
minutes was a grueling ordeal. Since a Braille page is about a third of
a print page it was incredibly frustrating that I could not go faster.
At first I neglected to practice sometimes because I was not in a mood
for self torture. Then I started considering just how much was available
in Braille for me to read anyway and what kind of material it was.
Actually, most of it seemed to be bibles and religious tracts. I
probably could have improved if I had stuck with it, but I finally
decided that it was just not worth the effort. One of the big advantages
of it that had been promoted to me was the ability to write myself
notes, but by then I was using a pocket tape recorder for that. Most
bills I could effectively access by calling the company's customer
service number. They might have Braille menus in restaurants, but I
didn't exactly frequent restaurants much. Altogether it just did not
seem to be worth continuing, so I quit and have used what I learned for
only an occasional label since.
On 5/24/2016 6:15 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
Sometimes “giving up,” if that’s the way one wants to look at it is the result of exactly that cost/benefit analysis to which you refer.
And I take your point that technical things don’t come easily to you.
On May 24, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I have no idea how old you are, Alice, butt at the age of sixty-two I am considered elderly. Somehow the phrase technically minded is a phrase that I would have never applied to myself. It is, indeed, true that some people find it easier to learn some kinds of things than others and the reason I do not consider myself technically minded is because those technical subjects have always been the most difficult for me. I was always the type who could take a lab and lecture course and ace the lecture and flunk the lab. I find that I do my best learning by reading narratives. I read a history book and I learn history. I read a technical manual and I am completely lost. I usually don't need to read the history book again, but just go on to the next history book. I do need to read the technical manual again, though, and oftentimes I need to read it over and over and intensely study it. Again, it is often to the point of mental exhaustion and even then I have only come to understand barely parts of it. In that case I just gird myself for more mental exhaustion and try again. Of course, as much as I might want to, I will never learn all of human knowledge. There is just too much of it and no one person will ever accomplish that task. That means that I have to do a bit of a cost benefit analysis before I start to learn something. I have to ask myself if the benefit of learning a certain thing will be worth the agony of learning it and I know beforehand what kinds of subjects will give me the most agony. If I decide that the benefit will be great enough, even if the benefit is only that I just will feel good about knowing the subject, I will jump into learning it. Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it is hard. Sometimes it is so hard that I cannot accomplish it. The example that always comes to my mind as a subject that I could not master was organic chemistry. Somehow I managed to barely pass my classes in it, but I really do not think I learned it very well and I tried very hard too. Nevertheless, it still remains that if you do try to learn something you might not learn it, but if you give up before you even try you will not learn it and that is the case no matter how old you are.
On 5/24/2016 3:40 PM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
Roger, I had to smile at your distinction between loving to learn and loving to know. I once had a violin student, she wasn’t half bad, who said to me, I don’t want to learn to play the violin, I want to play the violin. I wonder what ever became of her?
Remember, too, that you are still significantly younger than Miriam or I, and you are much more technically minded and inclined than many, and, as I said before, what might be easy for one person to grasp might be extremely difficult for another whose intelligence is of a different nature.
And, I must say, Miriam has far from given up, and, although she doesn’t seem to think this about herself, she is capable of doing a hell of a lot with computers and other devices she uses well and on a regular basis.
Alice
On May 24, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Struggle is the right word. In 2003 I bought a computer and found that about the only thing I knew about it was how to even plug it in and I was lucky to know that. I then proceeded to teach myself how to use it. I was determined to not have wasted all that money I had spent on it. Very often I would work with it all day and go to bed absolutely mentally exhausted and then start again the next day. I actually had a technical support number to call, but I didn't know what it was and the fact that the word technical was in it kept me from calling because I thought it would be over my head. Eventually I did find that the more I learned the easier it was to learn something else. Then I discovered technical email lists. My first one was the Bookshare volunteer list. It was from that list that I learned how to transfer files. I found out that my learning rate did increase considerably once I started reading those technical support lists. There are still a lot of things I do not know how to do though. For one thing, I really don't know where to start in handling PDF files and I keep telling myself that I really should get around to tackling that too. One thing is certain. If I had told myself that I am too old to learn and then given up before I even started you would not be reading my words now. I have said here before that I love to learn. That is not exactly true. Learning can be exhausting and it can be very tempting to give up. What I love is knowing. The trouble is that one cannot know without learning. So I gird myself and get down to learning so that I can then know. Before I ever touched a computer that became a habit for me and I still remember experiencing some mental exhaustion in other areas such as trigonometry or chemistry.
On 5/24/2016 11:11 AM, Alice Dampman Humel wrote:
Miriam,
Believe you me, it was an enormous struggle, but I’m nothing if not persistent and determined, so…and I am also sadly aware that I don’t know how to do half of what I am sure can be done on this computer, the iPhone, and with VoiceOver…
So it has far less to do with ability than you might think…I don’t have that much ability, either.
I think many of us are in the same boat…we were plain and simple too old when all this techno stuff exploded onto the scene!
Alice
On May 24, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Alice,
I'm envious of your ability to learn new things. I'm actually avoiding
upgrades and anything new if I can help it. I was never trained properly on
computers, have no knack for them, and didn't learn new stuff easily on
themwhen I was younger. At this point, if I can just do the things I know
how to do, I'm grateful. At some point, I'll have to upgrade something and
then I'll be in a mess!
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:02 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: one more thought about the stream and the NLS
player
If you use a Mac, you don't even have to bother with all that companion or
unzipping.
The Mac automatically unzips the book, and all you have to do is copy it
onto the sd card or the cartridge.
I know Apple products are not for everyone, but I, for one, am glad I put in
the effort to learn at least part of what can be done on the Mac with
VoiceOver and how to do it and thereby released from these constant JAWS
upgrades and the giant conglomerate of Microbloat, the incompatibilities of
JAWS with different websites and software, etc.
Not an endorsement, advice or recommendation, just FYI, one person's
experience and opinion. On May 24, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I'm glad that you are enjoying the stream. There is a piece of
software from
Humanware that was developed for the stream 1. It's called the
Humanware
Companion Software. Once it's downloaded, it makes transferring and
opening
books very easy.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Martian.Lady
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 1:13 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: one more thought about the stream and
the NLS
player
Hi
I definitely am not a blind gadget geek. I have a Windows 7
computer
because Microsoft made me give up my Windows XP computer. I have a
flip
phone from Walmart which cost $19.95. I bought a Victor Stream so I
could
download BARD and Book share books directly because I didn't know
how to
transfer books from the BARD site through the computer. As I said
before I
love my stream.
Marsha
