Re: [blind-democracy] email spam
That is true. I could be over generalizing and I really don't know to
what extent cultures vary from African country to African country. The
book I am
talking about is one that I forget both the title and author. If you are
interested I could look it up in my read shelf on Goodreads. But I think
the author
was from Cameroon. Maybe I got that wrong, but it was not Nigeria. My
reference to Nigeria was about a certain African student I knew when I
was in college.
But he was the most prominent example that I know of myself of an
African who made a lot of outrageous requests and I along with other
students at the
time, assumed it to be a part of his individual personality, a very
annoying part of his personality. Still, though, there were other
African students
who did the same thing even if to a lesser extent and there is still the
example of my acquaintance who had pen pals from around the world and
was rather
astounded by the requests made of her by her African pen pals. That is,
the habit seemed to be somehow characteristic of Africans and Africans
from more
than one country. I had no explanation for it. Then I read that book. It
was one I downloaded from Learning Ally. The author was talking about
only one
African country, his own country, and if I am remembering correctly it
was Cameroon. The behavior he described matched the examples I knew of
very well.
I was so impressed by an explanation for something that I was already
aware of, but had no explanation myself, that I remember posting on this
list about
it. So I am inferring and generalizing about African countries other
than what that author mentioned, but it was so similar to what I have
noticed about
the residents of subSaharan Africa in general that I strongly suspect
that the generalization is correct. I am not actively seeking out
information about
this practice elsewhere in Africa, but if I come across any then I will
stand to be corrected about my generalization. Unfortunately, the author
did not
say what the proper response is to the request for an expensive gift or
an outrageous favor. I could have used that information back when I knew
Ita. That
was the name of my Nigerian acquaintance. I just knew that I didn't want
to be rude to him and tell him that he was entirely out of line, but at
the same
time I just couldn't do some of the things he asked for or if I could do
them it would have meant using up a lot of time and could have been very
expensive.
I was just left at a loss about what to say to him. Some other people
told him off though.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/20/2019 9:41 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
block quote
First, I'm not sure that we can assume that all of the various African
peoples have the ssame culture. I don't know that what is true of the
Nigerians
about whom you read, is true of people from Kenya. And the fact is that
I didn't go with a group that was organized by a tour company. The
people who organized
the tour were the leader of the Long Island Ethical Humanist Society and
his wife. They had been in the Peace Corps and had served in Kenya.
Before we
left for the tour, they showed films and gave talks about the history of
the country. They never talked about this particular aspect. I don't
know if that's
because it isn't applicable to Kenya or because they never thought to
tell us or what the reason was. We saw several different parts of the
country and
only one part of the tour was like what typical tourists do there. That
was the visits to the wild game preserves where we slept in large, fancy
tents
and saw animals from our seats in a van. The rest of the trip was very
different.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey
<rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 9:00 PM
To: Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] email spam
I think the term is culture shock. It is just a fact of life that things
are done differently in different cultures and when people of different
cultures
encounter each other someone is likely to feel uncomfortable.
Another example that comes to mind is one that I found in an
anthropology textbook. I am the only person I know who reads textbooks
as recreational reading,
but I assure you that they are not necessarily as boring as you might
think, especially if you are reading a textbook on a subject you are
interested in.
Anyway, there was a piece by a Japanese anthropologist. He said that
even though he was an anthropologist himself and even though he was well
aware of
the difference in cultural practices he could not shake the discomfort
he felt when he was a guest in an American home. The main thing that
made him so
uncomfortable was that he was always asked if he wanted refreshments and
how he wanted them. For example, he would be asked if he wanted cream in
his coffee
or if he wanted sugar. In Japan a guest does not express preferences in
refreshments and the guest is not offered a choice. The guest simply
accepts what
the host offers him and accepts it in whatever way the host makes it for
him. Being asked how he wants it leaves him virtually tongue tied.
Anyway, when
I was in college the foreign students did not come with instruction
manuals and it would have been difficult to assimilate the various
cultures with each
other anyway. Although I can imagine that an intercultural seminar might
have been helpful. But if you are going on a trip to Africa with a tour
group
it seems to me that the tour organization could at least give you some
kind of warnings. Because I know of examples of this particular example
of culture
shock from some examples myself and since the author of a book who came
from Africa felt the need to discuss it in his book I think it is safe
to say that
this is a known issue. The tour group could at least have warned you
that you will be getting a lot of requests for gifts and that a lot of
the requests
would be downright outrageous. They could have warned you that when that
happened the people making the requests were trying to honor you. They
might have
instructed you on how to respond too. I can say that even if I have
learned what this is all about I am still not quite sure how I should
respond if I
am confronted by an African making an outrageous request again. But at
least I think I would feel more comfortable if I just knew what is
really going
on.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/20/2019 8:37 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
block quote
That's really interesting. It certainly didn't feel that way. I suppose
it illustrates how cultural differences can cause a lot of
misunderstandings between
people and if you think about it, probably some wars, as well.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey
<rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 7:50 PM
To:
blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
; Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] email spam
We discussed this once before. I was reading a book authored by someone
from, I think, Cameroon. If what he described applied to other African
countries
it explains a lot. It explains at least a couple of cases I can point
to. I was once acquainted with a woman who was into pen palling. She was
astounded
at the requests made by her African pen pals.
They wanted her to send them some very expensive gifts. In my own
experience I remember a certain foreign student when I was in college.
He was from Nigeria. He did not so much ask for material gifts, but he
was always asking for favors, rather outrageous favors. To a lesser
extent other
African students tended to ask for gifts and favors that were a bit
extreme too. This particular one, though, was always laughed at behind
his back for
his gall. Anyway, I think the book I read explained what was going on.
The author made a trip back to his country and after having lived in
America for
years he was taken aback himself by the requests that were made of him
even if he knew that it was coming and even if he had expected it.
According to
him there is a system of patronage woven into the culture. If you want
to get anything done or to acquire anything of value you have to
participate whether
you like it or not. For the most part, though, it is not a matter of
liking it or not. It is just the way things are done. So according to
him when people
from his country, and presumably from other countries in the subSaharan
region, ask for gifts they are not necessarily asking with the real
expectation
that they are going to get them. I doubt that they would turn it down if
you gave them the gift, though. The point is that they are honoring you
by asking
you to be their patron. As impolite as it might sound to American ears
in their culture it is like offering a compliment or otherwise showing
you respect
and goodwill. And they are likely to expect that you will ask for gifts
from them too. As much as it is a way to honor you it still remains that
when each
party asks for a gift and both are interested enough to follow through
that drives the economy and mutually helps people to get things done.
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence. ”
― Christopher Hitchens,
On 4/20/2019 4:19 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
block quote
I seldom get messages begging for funds. I suppose that Blind
Democracy sounds like a good place to beg for money. The message
reminded me of when I traveled with a group from the Ethical Humanist
Society and Adelphi School of Social Work in 1986 to Kenya. All sorts
of people were constantly asking us, as individuals, for money, for
aid to travel to the US or to sends them specific items when we
returned home. People had absolutely no embarrassment about doing
this. I remember how uncomfortable I felt because it was clear that
they saw us as wealthy people who owed them whatever they requested
because of who we were in relation to them. It must have been even
more uncomfortable for the African Americans in our group, who had
told us that this trip would be an opportunity for them to form a
relationship with the land of their ancestors. But the Kenyans did not
see them as kin. They saw them as rich American tourists.
Miriam
block quote end
block quote end
block quote end
--
---
Christopher Hitchens
“ What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
”
― Christopher Hitchens,
