Bob,
In my opinion, debating the finer qualities(grin)of Hilary Clinton and
Donald Trump, is an exercise in futility. Asking if one would be
"better" than the other is like trying to pick between Tweedle Dee and
Tweedle Dum.
More worthy of your ability is to ponder what sort of government would
serve the needs of All citizens. Then, neither Clinton nor Trump
would be in the running.
Carl Jarvis
On 2/15/17, Bob Hachey <bhachey@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Frank,
"Lazily into a republican trap?"
I must say I resent that one just a bit.
In 2008 I was mighty happy that I didn't have to vote for Hillary Clinton
because the relatively lesser known Obama was there. If the best the
Democrats can do is Hillary Clinton, then we'd better get used to rule by
the Republicans. An organized left minus corrupt folks like Debbie
Wasserman-Schultz is what we need.
I will give you only one thing. President Clinton would have been better
than President Trump. But do you really believe that she'd be fighting hard
for things like an increase in the minimum wage or a single payer health
care system?
Do you think she'd lift a finger to more tightly regulate the big banks
from whom she has received mighty handsome speking fees?
Now, I see the left and even some in the center marching in the streets and
flooding their members of Congress with phone calls. More and more Americans
are waking up to the mess we're in. IT is too damned bad that it took the
election of Trump to wake up those folks. The ones who've been asleepin?
They're the lazy ones!
It's time to stop blaming the left and start blaming the corrupt bastards
who hold leadership positions in the Democratic Party. Democrats need to
stop talking like lawyers and start talking like regular people. That's one
lesson from Trump. Also, Democrats need to stop taking contributions from
the evil practitioners of financial chicanery.
Here's a good one for you on what's wrong with the Democrats. Tom price was
just confirmed as secretary of health and Human Services, )UGH! Yes that's
bad. But here's what's even worse. In order to take his new post, he had to
resign from his seat in Congress. His Georgia district elected Trump by a
very small margin of 3 percentage points. That suggests that it is a seat
where Democrats could compete and win. But it seems that the Democratic
leadership is not much interested in competing for this seat! Now that's the
kind of wimpy behavior that has thwarted democrats in recent elections.
The Democrats had better learn fast how to play hardball just like the
Republicans do or they may as well close up shop. The necessity to play
hardball is another lesson from Trump.
Bob Hachey
Bob Hachey
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:15 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE:
[blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re:
[blind-democracy] Calling Trump a ‘fascist’ disorients the working class
Bob, not even close. Bernie couldn't even win here in Massachusetts,
arguably the furthest left state in the union. His poll numbers were low but
his supporters vocal. The working class has been conditioned to fear
socialism and that is how they viewed Bernie. He would have lost the general
election by a landslie. Any Democratic candidate for president needs to win
by about a 15 to 20 percent margin to overcome Republican election
manipulation. Al Gore wasn't able to overcome this and neither was Hillary
Clinton. The good ole boys and the heartland honeys are very fearful that
their homes, SUVs, 3.2 kids, and guns will be taken away if one of those
"commie bastard" Dems take office. That is what right wing talk radio
teaches them isn't it? As far as Bubba goes; he wasn't running. Anyone who
considered that an issue fell lazily into a republican trap. As I predicted
many times it would be the left that weakened the Democratic party to the
point where no Democratic Party candidate could beat Trump. The history so
far has proven me correct, that is wasn't the far right that threw the
election for Trump; it was the far left. Like I said the Champagne is
flowing in the hot tub's of Lexington and the Vodka is flowing in the
smoking rooms of the Kremlin. So enjoy your Smirnoff now America until we
are forced to dig our own graves.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Hachey
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 9:24 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE:
[blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] Calling Trump
a ‘fascist’ disorients the working class
Hi Frank,
ARE you saying that the fear of Bernie motivated folks to vote for Trump?
How could the left truly support Clinton given Bubba's rotten record in the
White House?
Shame on the Democratic leadership for trying to force Clinton down our
throats. IF they hadn't rigged the thing, Bernie would have won and he'd
have likely beaten Trump given that he had way more enthusiasm behind him
than Hillary ever could. Lots of Clinton votes were done very
half-heartedly.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:58 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE:
[blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] Calling Trump a ‘fascist’ disorients
the working class
That's not my analysis. I didn't meet any working people who liked or voted
for Hillary. The more educated and politically moderate people did. And
apparently, 3 million more voted for her than Trump.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:20 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re:
[blind-democracy] Calling Trump a ‘fascist’ disorients the working class
Miriam, all true and to look it at deeper the left put most of its energy
(this election cycle) attacking the Clintons, although only one was running,
and the Democratic Party as w hole. That didn't sit well with middle of the
road working class folks who viewed it as a radical attempt against
democracy. The result was that it pushed the folks that we would consider
the working class further and further to the right and that is why Trump was
so unstoppable, by anyone.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:27 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy]
Calling Trump a ‘fascist’ disorients the working class
And then there's the question of just who the working class is. Remember
that only a small percentage of people voted at all. So when we say that
Hillary got the majority of the popular vote, what does that mean? Talk to
working people on Long Island and you'll find that most of them supported
Trump. When the Left talks about the working class as if the working class
actually agrees with its positions, and I've seen numerous articles saying
this, my response is that the Left is in as much of a bubble as was the
DNC.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] Calling Trump a ‘fascist’
disorients the working class
"What working people need is to organize independently of both capitalist
parties."
Well said. But the hard part is in the doing. With so much confusing
propaganda by the Ruling Class, and so many years in refining their control
over the working class, the task of teaching people to think, is daunting.
Call Donald J. Trump a Fascist and his opponents eagerly agree, while his
defenders snarl and hurl curses. And nothing changes. But challenge the
corrupt capitalist system and you could well wind up like Leon Trotsky or
Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior. Or you might find yourself living in
poverty and shunned by your former friends, like Paul Robeson. The Great
American Capitalist Oligarchy can allow us to tear down their shills and
front men. They have unlimited numbers of eager ass kissers waiting in the
wings. What we, the working class, lack are ass kickers.
Let's turn our attention away from Donald J. Trump and pull on our steel
toed boots.
Carl Jarvis
On 2/12/17, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://themilitant.com/2017/8107/810702.html
The Militant (logo)
Vol. 81/No. 7 February 20, 2017
(front page, commentary)
Calling Trump a ‘fascist’ disorients the working class
BY SETH GALINSKY
Many liberals, some conservatives and almost the entire middle-class
left call President Donald Trump and his administration fascist.
Drawing on the rich history of the revolutionary workers movement, the
Socialist Workers Party has a different view.
Is there something fundamentally different about the Trump
administration compared to previous Democratic and Republican ones? Is
Trump really a new Adolph Hitler or “Mussolini in a blue suit and tie,”
as Norman Pollack wrote on the Counterpunch website Feb. 3?
Or is Trump simply the new chief executive officer of the U.S. ruling
class, who won election because of the widespread distrust in his
opponent Hillary Clinton and interest in the working class for
political change at a time when they’re being battered by the effects
of a deepening worldwide capitalist economic crisis?
The answer to this question has serious political consequences for
anyone who is interested in defending the interests of the working
class in the United States and around the world.
Because of the decline in Marxist political culture in the world
today, “fascist” is an epithet used by many on the left to mean any
demagogic politician. They care little for seeking to learn the rich
history of the revolutionary working-class movement’s writings on
fascism from Germany and Italy to the U.S.
Fascism is the name given to reactionary mass movements that arose
leading up to World War II — like those led by Benito Mussolini in
Italy and Hitler in Germany and with echoes in the U.S. and other
imperialist countries — that were backed by the capitalist classes in
those countries when the existing dictatorship of capital could no
longer survive by normal “democratic” means.
Leon Trotsky, a leader of the Russian Revolution, who was expelled
from the Soviet Union in 1929 by Joseph Stalin as part of a broader
counterrevolution against the program of V.I. Lenin that led the
workers and farmers of Russia to power in 1917, wrote extensively about
fascism.
His goal was to lay bare the class dynamics that led to its rise and
to politically prepare revolutionary-minded workers to fight against it.
Through the fascist movement “capitalism sets in motion the masses of
the crazed petty bourgeoisie and the bands of declassed and
demoralized lumpenproletariat — all the countless human beings whom
finance capital itself has brought to desperation and frenzy,” Trotsky
explained, and then uses them as thugs to smash the labor movement and
its vanguard communist organizations.
The fascists “initially rail against ‘high finance’ and the bankers,
lacing their nationalist demagogy with anticapitalist demagogy,” notes
Socialist Workers Party National Secretary Jack Barnes in Capitalism’s
World Disorder. In order to divert ruined petty-bourgeois elements and
demoralized workers from seeing capitalism as the problem, the Nazis
scapegoated the Jews as responsible for the growing economic and
political crisis and whipped up calls for a “final” solution to the
“Jewish question.” At the same time, the fascists “ape much of the
language of currents in the workers movement. ‘Nazi’ was short for
National Socialist German Workers Party.”
“Fascism is not a form of capitalist rule, but a way of maintaining
capitalist rule,” Barnes said.
Fascist groups, which exist on the fringes at first, only get
financial and political backing from a significant section of the
bourgeoisie when the working class “puts up an increasingly serious
challenge to capitalist rule itself,” Barnes said.
In Germany and Italy the working class was unable to unify and
mobilize its allies to overthrow capitalism and take power because of
the betrayal by the Stalinist Communist Party and the reformist Social
Democrats.
In 1930 the Social Democratic Party received 8,577,700 votes and the
Communist Party 4,592,100 votes compared to 6,409,600 for the Nazis.
If the Social Democrats and Communist Party had formed a united front,
if the trade unions they led had built workers defense guards, if they
were on a political course to lead the working class to overthrow
capitalist rule, they could have stopped fascism on the road to power.
Instead, they did nothing to stand up to the fascist gangs and Hitler
came to power without a fight.
Workers paid the price of the Stalinist and Social Democratic betrayal
in blood. Millions of Jews and gypsies were sent to their deaths in
concentration camps. The unions were destroyed. The working class was
driven off the political stage.
Counterpunch’s Pollack says the election of Trump is “a forward space
in what I term a pre-fascist configuration, i.e., analogous to Germany
in 1938.” Hardly.
Trump surprised bourgeois politicians and pundits across the political
spectrum. He convinced a layer of workers that he was the lesser evil
compared to Clinton; not so hard to do given the anti-working-class
record of Bill and Hillary Clinton when they occupied the White House.
Hillary Clinton helped Trump win by calling workers who were
considering a vote for him “deplorables” and “irredemables.”
That’s the same language many on the left still use today. Andrew
Levine, says in Counterpunch Feb. 3, that “Trump’s supporters fall
into three broad categories: dupes, deplorables, and opportunists.”
Levine says it’s “the lowlifes whose cages he [Trump] had rattled and
whose passions he had inflamed” that are the problem, showing his
scorn and fear of the working class.
In fact, Trump’s policies are a mix of steps designed to attract
working-class support, like his disdain for the government’s fake
unemployment figures and his call for infrastructure building and a
repair program to provide jobs, with demagogic nationalist rhetoric
that divides the working class. Like other bourgeois politicians he
seeks to shore up capitalism.
Facts don’t matter to the ‘left’
To those crying “fascist,” however, the facts don’t matter.
Workers World Party leader Larry Holmes, to take just one example,
said in a Jan. 29 speech, “Building the ‘Wall’ and this ban on Muslims
are fascist acts.”
Holmes leaves out that about 650 miles of the “wall” along the
U.S.-Mexico border has already been built, mostly by the
administrations of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Does Holmes think
Clinton and Obama are fascists?
Labeling Trump a fascist, helps pave the way for resuscitating the
Democrats, the rulers’ other party, as the answer.
There is another danger in mislabeling Trump and his administration as
fascist. It disarms the working class politically for when fascism
really does raise its ugly head once again — as it inevitably will
when the ruling families see no other way to maintain capitalism.
Communist workers don’t care which bourgeois candidate any individual
workers voted for — or didn’t — in the presidential election. What
working people need is to organize independently of both capitalist
parties.
Far from the political space for workers to discuss, debate and fight
having been smashed by fascist gangs, the field is wide open. The
Socialist Workers Party’s candidates take its revolutionary program
and win support on workers’ doorsteps in cities, towns and the
countryside, as well as on strike picket lines and social protest
actions.
We say the Socialist Workers Party is your party. What we do now in
building a revolutionary workers party will be decisive in the years
ahead.
Related articles:
Anarchist ‘black bloc’ politics pose threat to working class
Berkeley: Anarchists shut down speaker, attack workers Fascism rises
when capital must crush working class
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