Okay, now that I know what you're talking about, I will say that I'm a
bourgeois liberal and proud of it.
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 3:10 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Evan Reese
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: about Real News
I don't think I ever used the phrase true leftist. When I mention
liberalism I usually call it bourgeois liberalism and contrast it to
radicalism. I call it bourgeois liberalism because it is a bourgeois
ideology. That is, it defends or assumes the permanence of the current
class system, capitalism. It is an ideology that concentrates on making
the system somehow nicer without any perspective at all of replacing it.
Radicalism, on the other hand, proposes the complete replacement of
capitalism. By that measure I have never known Miriam to be anything but
a bourgeois liberal.
_________________________________________________________________
Isaac Asimov
“Don't you believe in flying saucers, they ask me? Don't you believe in
telepathy? — in ancient astronauts? — in the Bermuda triangle? — in life
after death?
No, I reply. No, no, no, no, and again no.
One person recently, goaded into desperation by the litany of unrelieved
negation, burst out "Don't you believe in anything?"
Yes", I said. "I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement,
and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no
matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and
more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the
evidence will have to be.”
― Isaac Asimov
On 10/30/2018 9:10 PM, Evan Reese wrote:
Haha, a liberal instead of a true leftist. I like that. It is certainly easy to get overly concerned about labels.
I've been writing too much here. I need a break.
Evan
-----Original Message----- From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 9:04 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: about Real News
Evan,
I feel like we are arguing instead of talking. I'm not sure that I've always
said negative things about our country on this list. Of course, I've been
here for at least 11 years and I was on it for a few years previous to those
eleven years. And it's difficult for me to know how what I write comes
across. I've had debates with various folks on the list before. Roger has
often accused me of being a liberal rather than a true leftist. Carl and I
have quibbled over whether or not to use the term, "middle class", in
certain contexts. I use the term. He does not. I once got into trouble with
someone who is no longer on the list because I said that I didn't think the
White House should have a Christmas tree lighting because I thought that a
Christmas tree is a symbol of a religious holiday and we are supposed to
have a separation between church and state. I've had differences with
Richard over a number of things, specifically, the Koch Brothers about whom
his feelings are more positive than mine. Frank and I have quarreled about
the Green Party and about Bernie Sanders. So certainly, I've had
disagreements with folks. But I don't think that I was accused of being
negative. You've indicated that all of us on the list sound negative and you
do remind me of Ted. Ted was a list member for many years and he was kind of
politically in the center. He'd been farther right politically previously.
He left the list and accused us all of being, "left wing radicals" which, to
him was a very negative thing to be. I think that perhaps, you mean somewhat
the same thing when you call me, or us, negative.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 8:09 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: about Real News
Hmmm, if you think I have ever said that people should only say good things
about our country or our economic system, you just aren't reading what I've
said.
There is a huge difference between being critical and being ONLY critical.
That's the difference between me and most people here.
If you take all my messages together, you will find that I have been
critical, but not only critical. By the same token, if you take all my
messages together, you will find that I have been positive, but not only
positive. Any positive thing you say is grudging at best, and only after
serious prodding. That is a very large difference.
Evan
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 6:31 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: about Real News
You know, a Democracy requires varying opinions, dissent, give and take. You
are defining criticism as being negative. Paul Jay isn't negative. He runs a
news organization which is attempting to give balanced, honest reporting of
local, national, and international news to people. He's describing, in part
of this Q &A, his view of the real issues in our country. Being critical of
what is happening and trying to make things better for people is actually
what good citizens should do. I don't want to be insulting, but in a way,
you're sounding like Mr. Trump who thinks that everyone around him,
including the press, should say only positive things about him and what he's
doing. You think that everyone in the US should say only positive things
about our economic system. I note that in your response to Mary's email
before, you mentioned something about how the Scandanavian countries do more
for the, I think you said, "unfortunate people", in their population. Maybe
that wasn't the word, but you ad the population divided up. The point is
that we need to have a society where people are treated equally well and
have equal access to goods and services, regardless of their backgrounds or
particular skill sets. We all need good medical care, adequate housing,
nourishing food. There's no reason for one person to own 5 homes with full
staffs in each while some people are homeless and starving.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:27 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: about Real News
Well if you agree with it I'm sure it'll be all negative then.
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 4:44 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] about Real News
I just forwarded a digest. I recommend you listen to the discussion between
Ben Norton and Paul Jay. Paul Jay describes are current political and
economic situation in a way with which I pretty much agree.
Miriam
